View Poll Results: Does An American Have Freedom Of Science?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • No; there are limits to religious freedom when that is contradicted by science

    5 19.23%
  • Science cannot limit an American's freedom of religion

    7 26.92%
  • Sometimes. Kids should be taught whatever their parents want, but not abused.

    2 7.69%
  • I think my religion explains the world and I have no use for science

    0 0%
  • What I do in my private life is my own business, and I can raise my kids however I like

    10 38.46%
  • No opinion or undecided

    2 7.69%
Page 4 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 289

Thread: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

  1. #31
    Resident Martian ;)
    PirateMk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    9,928

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Excellent summation. I'd like to add a couple points though. One of the reasons I see folks reject many scientific conclusions is down to reproducability. So many scientific conclusions are not reproducible by lay people (they do not have the tools, equipment or learning to do so). Also, again, many times, the scientific conclusion is at direct odds with the individual's life experience.

    However, you leave out a very important factor, which Goshin mentioned - scientists are human just like everyone else. They fudge numbers, seek advancement in their fields (sometimes to the exclusion of accuracy), cheat, deceive and downright just get it wrong. The tools of scientific inquiry are sound, the problem is the nut behind the wheel.
    That last 3 lines of yours is so true. I am glad you said it. I wish I had put it as sucincly as you have. I see this in the Global Warming debate and am seeing this more in the harder sciences now. Its a shame really. I love science and the rigour it imposses on your thought process. It requires flexible thinking and ingenuity and curiosty and all of our mental muscle to use scienticfic method correctly. To bad there are scientists not so constrained. Flexibility and curiosty are not in favor in large parts of the scientific communitie these days, and that is sadning.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  2. #32
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Again, I have no quarrel with anyone who is skeptical about a new scientific theory. I am impatient with people who still want to debate whether evolution or global warming are real, but they can believe whatever they like -- as long as my tax dollars are not going into funding these mistakes in thinking.

    I do not want to give out taxpayer dollars as grants to look for the Holy Grail, etc.
    Well, you certainly jumped out on the ledge there. Evolution IS a scientific theory and global warming, especially AGW has more holes than any swiss cheese.

  3. #33
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,596
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    1. Discipline yes. Beat abusively no.

    2. Those who want their children to be educated in a certain manner differing substantially from societal norms should put their children in private schools. This would include rabid atheists who don't want their children exposed to Christmas as much as fundamentalists who don't want their children exposed to evolution. Vouchers.

    3. Denounce? As is "speak against"? Sure, anyone can say anything. Denounce as in "try to block it"? Well, the bugger's got to stand to election doesn't he? Hold him accountable at the polls.
    The underlying problem here is one of extremism and intolerance.
    Vouchers ?
    I do not know exactly what these are, ...a conservative thing, so I am suspicious.

  4. #34
    Finite and Precious
    Jredbaron96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With you.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    7,891
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    "publish or perish" is their motto, and attempting to publish theories that contract the popular scientific dogma of the moment is rarely smiled upon.
    Goshin, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but I must point out:

    You have no idea how the scientfic community operates.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  5. #35
    Finite and Precious
    Jredbaron96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With you.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    7,891
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Evolution IS a scientific theory .
    Do you know the difference between a scientific theory and a theory?
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  6. #36
    Resident Martian ;)
    PirateMk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    9,928

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Again, I have no quarrel with anyone who is skeptical about a new scientific theory. I am impatient with people who still want to debate whether evolution or global warming are real, but they can believe whatever they like -- as long as my tax dollars are not going into funding these mistakes in thinking.

    I do not want to give out taxpayer dollars as grants to look for the Holy Grail, etc.
    The reason this is even an OP is because there are public schools. If there were no public schools this would not be talked about. We really need to start thinking about getting the government out of the education business.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  7. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    As for your complaints about evolution in science textbooks, you cannot opt out of paying property taxes anymore than you can opt out of paying income taxes, Tigger.
    There you have the whole issue of the thing, Pinkie. How to pay for the worthless skulls full of mush that are the majority of the inhabitants of our public school systems. They, and their parents are "educational zombies", shambling through the halls of academia to do their prescribed time and pay their prescribed portion of the dole so that someone can stamp "Graduated" on their head somewhere between their 17th and 19th birthdays and kick them out into the real world.

    You're absolutely right about the taxes. Unfortunately it is most often the STATE and FEDERAL income taxes rather than the local propery taxes that pay for our schools, which in turn means those higher levels of government have a say in how the school is run and what it taught, and the local school district has less say. Which is a large part of why there are more and more homeschoolers in the United States these days. Almost 2.5 million kids from an article I saw somewhere in the last couple weeks. My brother and s-i-l will pay all those taxes even though they homeschool their 3 (going on 4) kids.

    All we're asking is that if you want us to stay out of "your" educational experience, that "you" have the common decency to do the same for us.

  8. #38
    Guru
    Verthaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    09-08-16 @ 02:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,044

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    That's fine. Just please don't come to me and complain that you need more or my tax money for your school system when I homeschool my kids. Also, don't demand that my children pass some stupid state graduation exam to be considered to have graduated from high school.
    In a strange way,I sort of agree with you on this.I sent my youngest daughter to some very fine private schools and while I wasn't thrilled to pay taxes on something I didn't use (piublic schools),but hey I paid it anyway,because that's just the way it is.[/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    If I can't demand you teach Evolution as a THEORY in a science classroom, I don't want you demanding that I teach Sherman's March to the Sea as anything other than a War Crime perpetrated by General Sherman and Abraham Lincoln.
    If you homeschool your kids,you should be able to teach them anything you want.Just as I was allowed to send my daughter to any school that I wanted to that I was able to afford.Just don't get mad at me if when our kids enter the job market,your child ends up making 40 k a year and my child ends up making 100 k a year.

  9. #39
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Do you know the difference between a scientific theory and a theory?
    Do you? Do you know that it's the Theory of Evolution we're talking about. Why in the world would you teach science and not teach them how a theory works?

  10. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio, USA
    Last Seen
    12-10-12 @ 07:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,316

    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    There you have the whole issue of the thing, Pinkie. How to pay for the worthless skulls full of mush that are the majority of the inhabitants of our public school systems. They, and their parents are "educational zombies", shambling through the halls of academia to do their prescribed time and pay their prescribed portion of the dole so that someone can stamp "Graduated" on their head somewhere between their 17th and 19th birthdays and kick them out into the real world.

    You're absolutely right about the taxes. Unfortunately it is most often the STATE and FEDERAL income taxes rather than the local propery taxes that pay for our schools, which in turn means those higher levels of government have a say in how the school is run and what it taught, and the local school district has less say. Which is a large part of why there are more and more homeschoolers in the United States these days. Almost 2.5 million kids from an article I saw somewhere in the last couple weeks. My brother and s-i-l will pay all those taxes even though they homeschool their 3 (going on 4) kids.

    All we're asking is that if you want us to stay out of "your" educational experience, that "you" have the common decency to do the same for us.
    This is not my conclusion -- I can see why there'd be a "fairness" appeal to you, but it's not different from tax protestors in the 1970's who refused to pay income taxes because they opposed the War. This is a specious idea, IMO.

    Science is reality, Tigger. You have no right to ask me to pay for textbooks for you to use to teach your child a bunch of fairy tales, and you have no right to withhold tax dollars you owe so I cannot teach my child science.

Page 4 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •