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You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

Does An American Have Freedom Of Science?

  • No; there are limits to religious freedom when that is contradicted by science

    Votes: 5 21.7%

  • Science cannot limit an American's freedom of religion

    Votes: 5 21.7%

  • Sometimes. Kids should be taught whatever their parents want, but not abused.

    Votes: 2 8.7%

  • I think my religion explains the world and I have no use for science

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • What I do in my private life is my own business, and I can raise my kids however I like

    Votes: 10 43.5%

  • No opinion or undecided

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • Total voters
    23
Jredbaron96 said:
I've had discussions reagrding the sceintific community before with Goshin and can safely say that he continues to lack an understanding of how the scientific community operates.
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Maybe so, but his point is a valid one: it is not irrational to reject a scientific breakthrough that appears to me to lack a solid basis.

 
clownboy said:
Actually, yes. That's what science teachers do. It's part of the reproducibility lesson we teach.
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No, that is what scientists do. Science teachers are teachers who are scientifically literate to some degree. Unless they are good college professors, they need not to mess in the world of science.

Also, massive post I made on the previous page. Read it if you want.
 
Pinkie said:
Would you also like science teachers to cast doubt on the theory of gravity?
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There is no gravity. It's God's finger holding us down.

The Earth is flat, the Sun rotates around it, and the stars are just divine track lighting.

Jesus had a pet dinosaur. The Liberals left it out of the Gospel.
 
Pinkie said:
Maybe so, but his point is a valid one: it is not irrational to reject a scientific breakthrough that appears to me to lack a solid basis.
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The difference that comes into play is whether it actually lacks a solid base or people percieve that it lacks a solid base.
 
Goshin said:
Don't impose your beliefs on my children, and I won't impose my beliefs on yours.
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The thread is about science not mere belief so this is, at the very least, out of place.
 
rocket88 said:
There is no gravity. It's God's finger holding us down.

The Earth is flat, the Sun rotates around it, and the stars are just divine track lighting.

Jesus had a pet dinosaur. The Liberals left it out of the Gospel.
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Running for office, are you?

LOL.
 
For the record, I chose the first option, but it doesn't really reflect my answer to the question.

My real answer is that you are free to teach your kids whatever you want, but schools should teach science. If you don't want your kids to be taught science, send them to a private school where they will be taught your religion. You don't have the right to teach your religion to my children in public school.
 
rocket88 said:
There is no gravity. It's God's finger holding us down.

The Earth is flat, the Sun rotates around it, and the stars are just divine track lighting.

Jesus had a pet dinosaur. The Liberals left it out of the Gospel.
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Dammit man... you have 2 months left. Go run for office!
 
rocket88 said:
For the record, I chose the first option, but it doesn't really reflect my answer to the question.

My real answer is that you are free to teach your kids whatever you want, but schools should teach science. If you don't want your kids to be taught science, send them to a private school where they will be taught your religion. You don't have the right to teach your religion to my children in public school.
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AND if you chose a private school for your child, don't ask taxpayers to buy textbooks for that private school that replace science with religion.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Yes. It's your bolding of the word 'theory' implies that you are stressing it, in order to disenfranchise it.



Of course we teach what a sceintific theory is. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. It significantly differs from a laymans term "theory".
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Yes, right from the wiki. And again I believe the scientific method and the meaning of scientific theory should be taught along with the fact that evolution is a scientific theory.
 
Juiposa said:
Why we are treating the two as somehow similar is beyond me. Science and religion are two separate entities and should be treated as such. Government does indeed need to deal with both, but separately. Both evolution and intelligent design can indeed be taught in schools, but not together. Intelligent design belongs in a Religion class and Evolution in a Science class. I do not believe one or the other.

Many people seem to be polarised by this issue, why either has to be the basis for public policy is baffling, and why it is a continued source of debate is even more so. Again, they are separate and should be treated as such.
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I agree with this. I actually believe that creationism, et al. should be taught in all schools along with principles from all the major religions. However, I think that they should be taught in their proper place - religious class and not science class. Students ought to know about religion and thus, religion should not be entirely eliminated from the public school system. However, they need to learn about in a way that does not confuse it with scientific knowledge.
 
clownboy said:
Yes, right from the wiki. And again I believe the scientific method and the meaning of scientific theory should be taught along with the fact that evolution is a scientific theory.
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Evolution is not in doubt, though. THIS is where I think you and I disagree -- I don't want public school kids taught "we don't know what actually happened, but one theory is evolution".
 
Pinkie said:
This is not my conclusion -- I can see why there'd be a "fairness" appeal to you, but it's not different from tax protestors in the 1970's who refused to pay income taxes because they opposed the War. This is a specious idea, IMO.

Science is reality, Tigger. You have no right to ask me to pay for textbooks for you to use to teach your child a bunch of fairy tales, and you have no right to withhold tax dollars you owe so I cannot teach my child science.
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I'm not suggesting that anyone withhold taxes, Pinkie. I'm just suggesting that if I'm already paying for something that I don't use (the public school system), and them paying extra to teach my children at home, I shouldn't have to be bothered by these bureaucrats demanding to know what books I'm using to teach history or science to my kids, as I have seen happen in this state and heard about in many others.

Science is one view of reality, Pinkie. Most of it is still theoretical, and therefore not provable beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the problem. Both sides want to teach their version of FAITH. The only difference is that one side is stomping their feet, closing their eyes, plugging their ears and repeating "You can't make me listen to any other view." Then you have the homeschoolers.

Verthaine said:
Umm,both me and my wife went to public schools growing up,and we both make a whole lot more money than you do.Just saying.
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I'm a product of a public school education myself, Verthaine. Unfortuantely there was no appropriate private school in Central Connecticut at the time I was growing up. Thankfully I had two parents who were licensed teachers at home to help straighten things out after the school day was over.

Verthaine said:
I'm all in favor of people "homeschooling". I want my kids and grandkids to have every advantage they can get in these economic times.Less qualified applicants is better for their chances on landing good careers. I say, if people want to homeschool their kids to turn them into clones of themselves, I have no problem with that if I allowed to educate my children the way I want to be these peoples bosses.
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That's fine. Just realize that I probably wouldn't hire most of the kids ages 18-25 that I see to dig a ditch for me, regardless of whether they got their education at a public or private school. Then again, there are those of us who would never work for someone like your daughter anyway. Not because of her educational background, but because of her gender.
 
clownboy said:
Yes, right from the wiki. And again I believe the scientific method and the meaning of scientific theory should be taught along with the fact that evolution is a scientific theory.
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Then I apologize, I don't see the conflict here.

Evolution should be taught as the fact it is; I'm glad we are in agreement.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I agree with this. I actually believe that creationism, et al. should be taught in all schools along with principles from all the major religions. However, I think that they should be taught in their proper place - religious class and not science class. Students ought to know about religion and thus, religion should not be entirely eliminated from the public school system. However, they need to learn about in a way that does not confuse it with scientific knowledge.
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Why should every public HS kid be taught a survey class on comparative religion, TPD? I can think of 100 classes they need more.

I don't want to mollycoddle the fundies one damn bit with taxpayers dollars.
 
Pinkie said:
The thread is about the tension between freedom of religion and reality AKA, science.
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Your OP talked about not treating religion as science and thus, Goshin's point was a strawman since it creates a false equivalence between religion and science that was denied in your OP. Has the thread changes since your OP?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Your OP talked about not treating religion as science and thus, Goshin's point was a strawman since it creates a false equivalence between religion and science that was denied in your OP. Has the thread changes since your OP?
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No, not at all -- and Goshin seems not to agree with me. (I'm not 100% sure what his POV is.)

My POV is that religion needs to shove over for reality AKA science in certain areas of our public life.
 
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