View Poll Results: Does An American Have Freedom Of Science?

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  • No; there are limits to religious freedom when that is contradicted by science

    5 19.23%
  • Science cannot limit an American's freedom of religion

    7 26.92%
  • Sometimes. Kids should be taught whatever their parents want, but not abused.

    2 7.69%
  • I think my religion explains the world and I have no use for science

    0 0%
  • What I do in my private life is my own business, and I can raise my kids however I like

    10 38.46%
  • No opinion or undecided

    2 7.69%
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Thread: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

  1. #261
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    The funny thing about science is that when proven wrong,it is more willing to admit it was wrong far quicker than religion does.Then it tries other avenues to pursue far quicker than religion does.
    It may take a generation for science to admit it was wrong about something,but it takes religions centuries or even millenium (if it ever does) to admit it.

    In my profession,there's a saying,"there is a science to cooking and an art to dining.A chef that relies of faith alone is a lousy chef".

    Making statement out of the heiner means nothing...who says science admits their wrong more...science ? lol

  2. #262
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Making statement out of the heiner means nothing...who says science admits their wrong more...science ? lol
    Who says it doesn't...Religion?
    Thinking out one's heiner doesn't means nothing either.
    A lot of scientist used to believe the earth centric model of the universe was correct,and anything else was considered practically religious and scientific heresy.
    How long did it take science to admit the earth centric model of the Universe was wrong,and how long did it take the the Catholic Church?

    And before you answer, the device you are looking at right now,how did it come about?From religious belief or scientific investigation?

  3. #263
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    Who says it doesn't...Religion?
    Thinking out one's heiner doesn't means nothing either.
    A lot of scientist used to believe the earth centric model of the universe was correct,and anything else was considered practically religious and scientific heresy.
    How long did it take science to admit the earth centric model of the Universe was wrong,and how long did it take the the Catholic Church?

    And before you answer, the device you are looking at right now,how did it come about?From religious belief or scientific investigation?
    And before everyone goes down this facetious path of who admits wrong ideas first, let's remember that science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

    Isaac Newton's religious views - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Isaac Newton (25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727)[1] was, as considered by others within his own lifetime, an insightful and erudite theologian.[2][3][4] He wrote many works that would now be classified as occult studies and religious tracts dealing with the literal interpretation of the Bible.[5]

    Newton’s conception of the physical world provided a stable model of the natural world that would reinforce stability and harmony in the civic world. Newton saw a monotheistic God as the masterful creator whose existence could not be denied in the face of the grandeur of all creation.[6][7] Although born into an Anglican family, by his thirties Newton held a Christian faith that, had it been made public, would not have been considered orthodox by mainstream Christianity;[8] in recent times he has been described as a heretic.[9]

  4. #264
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    There will always be the question, "What came before that?", and science can only answer that question up to a certain extent. People ask the question, "What came before the Big Bang?", and science may very well answer that question. But, then the question will be "What came before that which came before the Big Bang?", and science may find out the answer to that as well. But, this will just keep going on and on until science really can't give an answer.
    I know there are scientist alot smarter than me who accept your premise. I'm just not one of them. If there is such a thing I believe in an oscilating universe. But that a some point something started the ball rolling. But thats just me.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  5. #265
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Again, it does not appear to me that "life" is a bright line, scientifically speaking.
    I'm sorry but I don't understand what "bright line" means
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  6. #266
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I see only one potential gain in a HS required course on Comparative Religion: a reduction in ignorance and fear.

    I see a whole raft of problems with such a course: complaints from parents amd the community about how their faith is presented; attempts by students, teachers, parents or the community to co-opt the course so as to proselytize; students of minority faiths feeling bullied; parents like me who believe that teaching values is not a proper function of public schools; etc., etc., etc.

    IMO, a required HS course of this sort is just not a good idea.
    Eh, a reduction in ignorance outweighs a bunch of whiny parents and the like who probably need their own ignorance reduced. The idea that something immensely positive should be avoided because it might upset some people and has the potential to abuse just doesn't sit well with me. There's hardly anything positive in the world that doesn't come with potentially negative consequences and in this case, not pursuing education because of ignorance doesn't make sense.

    Moreover, the very problem that you're illustrating in this thread - of some religious people's irrational perception of science - can only be effectively combated with education which is the very thing you oppose. Odd.

  7. #267
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    And he verified this mathematical formula by hiring men to walk off the distance between one of his base points and the other keeping track of their measurements as they went. A distance (as I remember of several hundred miles).
    Yes, he certainly did. I believe one point of reference was Alexandria.

    One can do the same experiment and measurement today.

    Those ancient Greeks were a crafty lot of people, well ahead of their time.

    In fact, the worlds first computing device was traced back to about 200 BC, you may wish to check out the "Antikythera Mechanism" it's a very interesting bit of Ancient Greek technology

  8. #268
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    Yes, he certainly did. I believe one point of reference was Alexandria.

    One can do the same experiment and measurement today.

    Those ancient Greeks were a crafty lot of people, well ahead of their time.

    In fact, the worlds first computing device was traced back to about 200 BC, you may wish to check out the "Antikythera Mechanism" it's a very interesting bit of Ancient Greek technology
    I believe you are right, but I did not want to stretch my neck out. The Great Library would have been a logical starting place.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    I'm sorry but I don't understand what "bright line" means
    Poorly worded, pardon.

    I meant that at the line between mineral and plant or other living organism, the division between what is "alive" and what is "inert" is likely far less rigid and impermeable than most would suppose.

    So, as matter moves from an "inert" state towards an "alive" one, it doesn't fall of a cliff -- it slides down a hill, metaphorically speaking.

    Am I right?

  10. #270
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Eh, a reduction in ignorance outweighs a bunch of whiny parents and the like who probably need their own ignorance reduced. The idea that something immensely positive should be avoided because it might upset some people and has the potential to abuse just doesn't sit well with me. There's hardly anything positive in the world that doesn't come with potentially negative consequences and in this case, not pursuing education because of ignorance doesn't make sense.

    Moreover, the very problem that you're illustrating in this thread - of some religious people's irrational perception of science - can only be effectively combated with education which is the very thing you oppose. Odd.
    We can disagree; we both know, this country isn't ready yet to move towards the course you suggest. When that happens, I imagine most of my concerns can be addressed.

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