View Poll Results: Does An American Have Freedom Of Science?

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  • No; there are limits to religious freedom when that is contradicted by science

    5 19.23%
  • Science cannot limit an American's freedom of religion

    7 26.92%
  • Sometimes. Kids should be taught whatever their parents want, but not abused.

    2 7.69%
  • I think my religion explains the world and I have no use for science

    0 0%
  • What I do in my private life is my own business, and I can raise my kids however I like

    10 38.46%
  • No opinion or undecided

    2 7.69%
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Thread: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

  1. #161
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Do you? Do you know that it's the Theory of Evolution we're talking about. Why in the world would you teach science and not teach them how a theory works?
    Except that Evolution is not a theory and should not be taught as much. What most people think is evolution is based on the writings of an Anglican deacon in the mid 19th century. Science and evolution are so far beyond that its ridiculous. I know of no ecologist, Wildlife Biological, Global Ecologist or any other scientist today who accepts what Darwin says as modern evolutionary thought.

    If people would take their heads out of the sand and realize the modern version I think there would be much less of a argument unless they were die in the wool creationists. So teaching kids in school something that is readily visible in the natural and physical world cannot possibly be considered a theory scientific or otherwise.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  2. #162
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Would you also like science teachers to cast doubt on the theory of gravity?
    Down here they already are.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  3. #163
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I've already said... there are scientific things that are self-evident, like the existence of gravity.

    OTOH, there are scientific things that are subject to debate, such as exactly what gravity/inertia IS (curved spacetime, gravitons, field effects, theories differ), or whether global warming is anthropogenic and constitutes a disaster, or whether evolution actually disproves the possibility of a Creator.
    ... Subject to debate... by whom? Look dude, there's little doubt in the scientific community about evolution. A few stray cats here and there do not disprove the mountains of information proving evolution is a fact at both the macro and micro levels. The only people that are still discussing this are the people who don't work in science. The laymen. Scientists? No. They're pretty much all in lock step about it as a fact.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #164
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Yes. It's your bolding of the word 'theory' implies that you are stressing it, in order to disenfranchise it.



    Of course we teach what a sceintific theory is. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. It significantly differs from a laymans term "theory".
    This is also called science visa vie the Scientific method.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  5. #165
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Maybe so, but his point is a valid one: it is not irrational to reject a scientific breakthrough that appears to me to lack a solid basis.

    If that basis is from the scientific community then I would doubt it. IF it was from a persons own perspective then it would depend on what the so called breakthrough was.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  6. #166
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree with this. I actually believe that creationism, et al. should be taught in all schools along with principles from all the major religions. However, I think that they should be taught in their proper place - religious class and not science class. Students ought to know about religion and thus, religion should not be entirely eliminated from the public school system. However, they need to learn about in a way that does not confuse it with scientific knowledge.
    Can I get an Amen to that brother AMEN
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  7. #167
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Except that Evolution is not a theory and should not be taught as much. What most people think is evolution is based on the writings of an Anglican deacon in the mid 19th century. Science and evolution are so far beyond that its ridiculous. I know of no ecologist, Wildlife Biological, Global Ecologist or any other scientist today who accepts what Darwin says as modern evolutionary thought.

    If people would take their heads out of the sand and realize the modern version I think there would be much less of a argument unless they were die in the wool creationists. So teaching kids in school something that is readily visible in the natural and physical world cannot possibly be considered a theory scientific or otherwise.
    This is what most people don't seem to get. Nobody today looks at Darwin's work to validate their theories regarding the evolution of birds. Darwin's book, was obsolete in its own field by the time the 20th century rolled along. 100 years later? It no longer mattered as anything more than a historical understanding of how modern scientists arrived at their understanding of evolution.

    The conservative/religious mind doesn't understand this fact for the simple reason that they do not believe in progress. The bible, regardless of all of its mistakes, contradictions and fallacies is still "true" to them to some degree. To the extremist, it's literal, to the moderate, it's allegorical, to the wish-washy, it's god's work as understood by men. However, they all retain that the tenets laid out by it are true. Science does not work in this way. It adapts to changes in methodology. Which religion has none so to speak.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #168
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I've already said... there are scientific things that are self-evident, like the existence of gravity.

    OTOH, there are scientific things that are subject to debate, such as exactly what gravity/inertia IS (curved spacetime, gravitons, field effects, theories differ), or whether global warming is anthropogenic and constitutes a disaster, or whether evolution actually disproves the possibility of a Creator.
    Yes, but that doesn't mean that the theory of evolution shouldn't be taught as a fact.

  9. #169
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ich kann nicht verstanden, was hast du sagen?

    Did not put this in the right place sorry.
    Last edited by wolfman24; 10-08-12 at 08:34 PM.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  10. #170
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, actually, scientists sometimes believe before they create or use the tools required to acquire knowledge as I said. This is just a fact merely because they are human. I'm sure there are scientists who believe in their hypotheses before they test them and believe in the possibility of finding vaccines before they discover or create them.
    This is very true fortunately they are in a very small minority and are caught rather quickly. the scientiifc community as a whole has our own punishment for them
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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