View Poll Results: Does An American Have Freedom Of Science?

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  • No; there are limits to religious freedom when that is contradicted by science

    5 19.23%
  • Science cannot limit an American's freedom of religion

    7 26.92%
  • Sometimes. Kids should be taught whatever their parents want, but not abused.

    2 7.69%
  • I think my religion explains the world and I have no use for science

    0 0%
  • What I do in my private life is my own business, and I can raise my kids however I like

    10 38.46%
  • No opinion or undecided

    2 7.69%
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Thread: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

  1. #91
    Sage

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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    TPD, I'm in Cleveland. We are struggling to graduate kids who can read.

    Get back to me when my public schools have gotten off their knees.
    And I'm in Chicago, where students have equally similar problems. But those problems do not reduce the importance of religion classes.

    It's funny that you ask me why I think religion classes are necessary and then when I give you my answer, rather than actually addressing the points I made, you just dismiss them with a red herring, "oh, some kids can't read." Give me a break. Don't ask questions and waste my time if you aren't even going to bother to give a serious answer.

  2. #92
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    WTH? You'd prefer to live among mostly illiterate people?

    Actually if you look at history you will find before public schools that the US had one of the highest trending to the highest literacy rates in the world. Public schools only started becoming compluserary in the late 1840's and most states did not have compulserary schools until about the 1900's. Public schools did not really start becoming a major phenominom till abou the 1900's as well though there were public schools even before the revolution.

    To be honest with you you cannot survive very well in todays world without being literate. If the public schools were eliminated today the literacy rate would probaly remain the same. It would be that way out of simple nessecity. You cannot operate a computer without knowing how to read. Education would probaly improve a bit as people would take it much more serious than they do now as they would have shoulder much more expence. I would prefer that schools if they are public be funded stricktly at the local level. If we lowered taxes to a minimal amount I think you would see a growth in schools being funded by charitable organizations and philanthopists. Not to mention corperation looking for good press and an educated work force. I have as part of my retirment plans a goal of starting a k-12 school here in California to compete directly against the crapy public institution they have here. Thats a ways a way for me yet. But it is a long term goal.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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  3. #93
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    What is insane is that 10 to 20% of us accept this YEC , but as we have a Representative democracy, the 15% should be repped..
    As to being on a committee, it would be interesting as to how this happened..The YECers have their supporters, I think...
    This is the corrosive effect of the Religious Right on our government, IMO. Which I also believe has nothing whatsoever to do with religion and everything to do with power.

    When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.

    ~~Sinclair Lewis, and later Huey Long


  4. #94
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Está bien, mi español es igualmente pobre.
    You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science-cartman-authoritah-jpg





    .

  5. #95
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    That is not how taxation works. Can I earmark my income tax dollars for law and order only? No?

    Then the fundies have to pay taxes to buy science textbooks that contain actual science. If they choose to keep them away from their kids, that's their right, but they don't get money from my taxes to buy "science" textbooks full of religious fairy tales.

    Fundies do not have any right to their own reality.
    Yes, that's how taxation works, and it works to benefit the group. If the local group doesn't want your textbooks then they should have the right through representation to have their own. Yes, no?

    And the so-called fundies would say exactly the same about you.

  6. #96
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Actually if you look at history you will find before public schools that the US had one of the highest trending to the highest literacy rates in the world. Public schools only started becoming compluserary in the late 1840's and most states did not have compulserary schools until about the 1900's. Public schools did not really start becoming a major phenominom till abou the 1900's as well though there were public schools even before the revolution.

    To be honest with you you cannot survive very well in todays world without being literate. If the public schools were eliminated today the literacy rate would probaly remain the same. It would be that way out of simple nessecity. You cannot operate a computer without knowing how to read. Education would probaly improve a bit as people would take it much more serious than they do now as they would have shoulder much more expence. I would prefer that schools if they are public be funded stricktly at the local level. If we lowered taxes to a minimal amount I think you would see a growth in schools being funded by charitable organizations and philanthopists. Not to mention corperation looking for good press and an educated work force. I have as part of my retirment plans a goal of starting a k-12 school here in California to compete directly against the crapy public institution they have here. Thats a ways a way for me yet. But it is a long term goal.
    "How to improve public schools" is a vastly different convo from "no taxpayer dollars should be spent on educating children", Pirate.

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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes, that's how taxation works, and it works to benefit the group. If the local group doesn't want your textbooks then they should have the right through representation to have their own. Yes, no?

    And the so-called fundies would say exactly the same about you.
    NO.

    In any public school, all Americans have contributed tax dollars and no child should be taught nonsense.

    It is not in our nation's best interests to allow parents to render their children ignorant and unemployable.

  8. #98
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Está bien, mi español es igualmente pobre.
    Quam suus 'vestri latin?

  9. #99
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    We can prove it up until denying it is compltely irrational. Tigger, as far as you know, I'm just a robot that is secretely plotting to destroy the world. If you can't see me, can't hear me, could it be true?
    It could very well be true. That's part of why I don't put much stock in discussions I have with people online unless I know them in person. It's also why no online discussion with ever change my mind on anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    There is a massive defference between faith and scientific theory.
    No, really there isn't. The reason you think so is that you're unwilling to look with anything other than your eyes, to hear with anything other than your ears, or feel with anything other than your hands.

    My youngest brother and his wife both hold PhD's in a form of genetic microbiology that is so far over my head that I stopped trying to understand it years ago. They play with fruit flies is the best way that I can describe it. I got a chance to see their lab at Columbia University in 2005. Very interesting place. Lots of cool gadgets and machines, but no soul whatsoever to the building, the people or the work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    I understand you are waging an all-out war on reason and logic, but your efforts are at best, pitiful.
    No. I'm waging a war on one group of people being allowed to hold up their mythology and demand it be recognized as TRUTH while denouncing everyone else's mythology.

    ]

  10. #100
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    The difference that comes into play is whether it actually lacks a solid base or people percieve that it lacks a solid base.
    Exactly. It's fine, and in fact necessary, to have a healthy skepticism when it comes to science because as new technology emerges, we often find out things we'd never imagined and sometimes have to revise entire, long held concepts. However, that skepticism must be based on something rational and all too often people confuse "I don't like it" or "my God says it isn't true" with rational reasons to reject scientific theories, discoveries, etc..

    The problem, however, is that the vast majority of people, in my experience, who base their skepticism on irrational things don't realize that they're being irrational so you can't actually tell them to stop being irrational because they can't even begin to understand where they went wrong.

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