View Poll Results: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

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Thread: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

  1. #111
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The frequency of birth defects in cloned animals far outstrips any influence from the age factor in humans. It is entirely the business of society to decide what risks are acceptable, that is entire purpose of medical ethics. Allowing individuals to make poor choices regarding the potential health of their children is entirely different from doctors deliberately taking actions known to be harmful. Medical professionals are held to a much higher standard than the common citizen.
    I agree 100%. I do not see this as a privacy issue at all.

  2. #112
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    The Op is a silly question. Medical ethics questions arising from emerging scientific and medical breakthroughs are going to dazzle everyone, and not always in a good way.

    In my lifetime, an artificial heart, a pig heart and the heart of another human has been used to extend the life of a person with heart disease. At each advancement, the public thought the implications were sinister and you can still watch recently-made horror movies where a person is killed so their organs can be harvested. Probably 75% of the non-medical public is afraid to consent to donate their organs out of fear they'll be killed by doctors so someone else can live.

    When we know what may be possible and have a chance to observe the unintended consequences, then we can discuss human cloning. Daisy the sheep seemed to live a healthy life, but how would we know whether a sheep was mentally ill?

    Whatever we do, I imagine we can count on the Roman Catholic Church to condemn it and possibly, that will carry weight with a Justice or two (Scalia and Thomas, if they're still on the bench) but this will never, just as it has never, serve as more than a nuisance.

    Progress will progress.
    Knowledge is like pandoras box, once opened its too late. Dealing with the consequences of technology is part and parcel. Cloning combined with quantom singling will end up giving humans the unique abillity to be in more than one place at the same time. Think about that for a moment. Brave new world indeed. Time is oblivious to you and I and keeps marching on.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The clone has no choice in their creation and it is they who will suffer from the mistake of another. That is not personal choice, you are condoning the deliberate victimization of the innocent by someone who fully understand the consequences of their actions.
    By your logic those who are genetically "undesirable" should not be allowed to breed, right?

  4. #114
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    O, now c'mon. They scrape inside your cheek and grow a replacement ear for you on a mouse, and you think anyone will oppose this?

    I can't picture the RCC showing for that argument even, unless they drug out the old "slippery slope" canard.
    Its not quite that simple. For some replacements it would require "harvesting" fully formed human beings who are kept in a hibernetic or unconscious state. Thats where the objection would arise.

    You cannot just take a DNA sample and then grow a piece. It is much more complex than that. You need to have the piece grown before you can use it and I do not see (at this point) how that can be done without growing the whole organism.
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  5. #115
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Genetic modification is just a technique like welding or riveting. You can use it to make good products or bad products depending on the circumstances and design. Some GM products are harmful and some aren't. You need to do specific research on the organism in question if you want an answer, not simply saying "frankenfoods are evil".
    I've actually done genetic modification of crops. From isolation to blot to selection etc, "the gene gun". It was a med-qualifying lab, phd level.

    That's aside from ecology and agro-anthropological issues.

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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Genetic modification is just a technique like welding or riveting. You can use it to make good products or bad products depending on the circumstances and design. Some GM products are harmful and some aren't. You need to do specific research on the organism in question if you want an answer, not simply saying "frankenfoods are evil".
    Its one of the reasons the GMO's of all sorts should be labeled as such. They are not nessarrily bad but then again I would like to know what excactly I be eating. Case in point. Wheat is 60% gluten in the current varieties, back 20 years ago it was around 10%. It has NOT been genetically manipulated directly but though extinsive breeding programs. So the wheat your daddy ate aint the kind of wheat we are are eating. Gluten by the way is mostly indigestable. If we look at Corn which has been extensively modified directly, it now has its own pestisides and radically altered genetic makeup. It has never been tested long term to my knoweledge. If you compare heirloom corn vs. GMO corn there is substantial differance. They in my opinion should not be considered the same product and be labeled differnetly.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  7. #117
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Its not quite that simple. For some replacements it would require "harvesting" fully formed human beings who are kept in a hibernetic or unconscious state. Thats where the objection would arise.

    You cannot just take a DNA sample and then grow a piece. It is much more complex than that. You need to have the piece grown before you can use it and I do not see (at this point) how that can be done without growing the whole organism.
    It can be done utilizing cartiledge scaffording tecniques which is partially how they got the mouse to grow a human ear. It can and is being done in the labratory, with main concenration on trying to build hearts. They are also pioneering the litteral printing of new organs with printers that arent too disimilar from a standard inkjet printer. Growing and harvesting people is a waste of time and resoarce. I am not saying they wouldnt do it just that it is not that likely.
    Last edited by PirateMk1; 10-05-12 at 05:58 PM. Reason: clarification
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  8. #118
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    It can be done utilizing cartiledge scaffording tecniques which is partially how they got the mouse to grow a human ear. It can and is being done in the labratory, with main concenration on trying to build hearts. They are also pioneering the litteral printing of new organs with printers that arent too disimilar from a standard inkjet printer. Growing and harvesting people is a waste of time and resoarce. I am not saying they wouldnt do it just that it is not that likely.
    I accept the idea about organs. Your description seems plausible. But I guess I did not make myself clear. I was not refering to organs but to limbs, sex organs, and the like. this would require a harvestable human. I also agree that it would be a waste of time. At some point the technology will exist to "duplicate" human tissue and use synthetic parts for limbs.

    I doubt we will ever (yes I know never say never) have the ability to replace the human brain.

    BTW I am for the most part agreeing with you!
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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  9. #119
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Sounds like you have a lot of irrational hang ups you need to overcome, to me.

    Why would a clone not be treated exactly like a human being?
    You'll need to have at least a base understanding of the issues and cloning itself to discuss this. You haven't met that bar yet. Stick to political issues where you can spitball the answer as is your MO.
    Last edited by clownboy; 10-05-12 at 06:15 PM.

  10. #120
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    Re: Which type of judges would support human cloning?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Its not quite that simple. For some replacements it would require "harvesting" fully formed human beings who are kept in a hibernetic or unconscious state. Thats where the objection would arise.

    You cannot just take a DNA sample and then grow a piece. It is much more complex than that. You need to have the piece grown before you can use it and I do not see (at this point) how that can be done without growing the whole organism.
    Well everyone of your cells has all the dna information to make the entire you. However most cells only have a portion of that DNA active so heart cells only make heart cells, lung cells only make lung cells. I have no clue how that actually works but thats what I hear. I agree to be able to grow stem cells and control which parts of the DNA activate is very challenging.

    To grow entier humans to harvest parts crosses even my moral boundaries, hibernated or not, and I'm a fairly open minded person. Right now you have to have no moral compass what-so-ever to think that's acceptable.
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