• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Academia vs Joe Sixpack

.


  • Total voters
    51
And tell me why you think its necessary to be in the condition of blacks in America to be a slave?

Even if we used what Berlin called "societies with slaves," your lives as a citizen in this country are much greater than that of a slave. This crosses all times in history, all areas of the globe, all peoples. You have more rights, more freedom than a slave. Period.
 
Some day terrorists are going to knock out the power grids. That's when the joes will survive and the elitists will not.

 
You know this is the very first year I have ever given money to any political party. I dont like either party. That said I gave the republicans money. Believe me I did not want to. That said I can no longer afford to ignore the impositions being made upon me. I dont like fighting, I had enough off that to last me a lifetime or two. Sometimes though you have to fight whether you want to or not.
 
Gotta love the internet tough guy.

I have wanted to fight the government for a long time now so its not some fake appearance you are seeing on my front. There is a difference between not having anyone to fight with you and faking your desire to fight back. I know its unwise to fight back if I'm going to do it alone and I know full well people like you would cheer my death when they gunned me down in the street.
 
I have wanted to fight the government for a long time now so its not some fake appearance you are seeing on my front. There is a difference between not having anyone to fight with you and knowing it is unwise to do alone and faking your desire to fight back.

I wasn't talking about you, but pirate.
 
Even if we used what Berlin called "societies with slaves," your lives as a citizen in this country are much greater than that of a slave. This crosses all times in history, all areas of the globe, all peoples. You have more rights, more freedom than a slave. Period.

Could slaves own land? Can we? Think that about that question before you answer because you will find both answers are no. The only way to truly buy land is by a special almost impossible to get deed that basically says you DO actually own the land. This also comes with pass on property taxes(the rent) and they can no longer take your property(the ownership) This deed is only available in Texas and even then they do NOT advertise it.

Do we have the freedom to say whatever we want about our leaders? Did slaves? On both fronts the answer is no. They can arrest us if we say something and not even have to sentence us to jail us for however long they feel like. With slaves if they spoke badly about the slave owner they were sold, killed or punished in some other way. Better today? Sure, but not really freedom, is it?

Can we leave whenever we want and can we come whenever we please? Yes? No again. There are many laws on such matters that control coming and going. They can even tax certain people when they leave the country because apparently they didn't pay the government enough.

I'm sure there is much to do before we become exactly like the American slaves of the past, but my point stands that we are closer to be being a slave than being free.
 
Could slaves own land? Can we? Think that about that question before you answer because you will find both answers are no. The only way to truly buy land is by a special almost impossible to get deed that basically says you DO actually own the land. This also comes with pass on property taxes(the rent) and they can no longer take your property(the ownership) This deed is only available in Texas and even then they do NOT advertise it.

Do we have the freedom to say whatever we want about our leaders? Did slaves? On both fronts the answer is no. They can arrest us if we say something and not even have to sentence us to jail us for however long they feel like. With slaves if they spoke badly about the slave owner they were sold, killed or punished in some other way. Better today? Sure, but not really freedom, is it?

Can we leave whenever we want and can we come whenever we please? Yes? No again. There are many laws on such matters that control coming and going. They can even tax certain people when they leave the country because apparently they didn't pay the government enough.

I'm sure there is much to do before we become exactly like the American slaves of the past, but my point stands that we are closer to be being a slave than being free.

I'm in farm country. The answer is, yes, there are farm owners here that own a lot of land. My grandfather owned land for decades for his ranch. My relatives are ranchers that own land. Hell, I spend the last week looking over land plots of farms from the 1890s to about the 1930s. Ownership abound.

Yes, we do. This entire forum demonstrates that. A year ago on a college campus here, we had Tea Party rallies that trashed the President. Were they arrested? No. Was there any fear of that happening? No.

You're insulting the memory of slaves with this nonsense.
 
Last edited:
I'm in farm country. The answer is, yes, there are farm owners here that own a lot of land. My grandfather owned land for decades for his ranch. My relatives are ranchers that own land. Hell, I spend the last week looking over land plots of farms from the 1890s to about the 1930s. Ownership abound.

Do these farmers have to pay property taxes and does the state have eminent domain over it? How many rules do you the farmers have to follow? Want to take a guess? if you want to talk of ownership how can you claim the above is ownership?

Yes, we do. This entire forum demonstrates that. A year ago on a college campus here, we had Tea Party rallies that trashed the President. Were they arrested? No. Was there any fear of that happening? No.

Yes, you are allowed to say some things about the president, but can you say whatever you want?

You're insulting the memory of slaves with this nonsense.

I'm not insulting anyone and if you have a problem with it why don't you go propose a law about not insulting American slaves? I'm sure the government will go along with it to some degree.
 
My grandfather never thought he was a slave. My entire extended family never thought they were slaves. My friends who had family farms never thought of themselves as slaves.

"Yes, you are allowed to say some things about the president, but can you say whatever you want? "
-No, but you can say a hell of a lot more than you used to be able to at the same time in history when slavery was in full-force, and long after it was banned.

"I'm not insulting anyone and if you have a problem with it why don't you go propose a law about not insulting American slaves? I'm sure the government will go along with it to some degree."

-Being snarky doesn't change the fact that you are looking more and more ridiculous each time you continue with this. Again, I beg you, pick up countless numbers of books and journal articles on slavery.
 
My grandfather never thought he was a slave. My entire extended family never thought they were slaves. My friends who had family farms never thought of themselves as slaves.

What that shows is what exactly?

-No, but you can say a hell of a lot more than you used to be able to at the same time in history when slavery was in full-force, and long after it was banned.

To the American slave perhaps, but to everyone else we are able to say far less than ever before.

-Being snarky doesn't change the fact that you are looking more and more ridiculous each time you continue with this. Again, I beg you, pick up countless numbers of books and journal articles on slavery.

I don't need you to preach to me about doing research on something that you yourself don't even understand. Elementary definitions that you just goggled mean nothing to me and do not show any understanding of the condition on your part. Please do not pretend that is not what is going on here. Your standards are fundamentally flawed and show you are nothing but averagely educated on the topic at hand.

Liberty - is the idea that we can do whatever it is that we want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of another.

Slavery- is the state of being unable to act peaceably without retaliation by unharmed parties.

In many ways we are unable to act in a peaceful manner without permission from the state and if we do act towards what is restricted without such permission we will be fined or jailed for punishment. There is other examples where we must follow the rules lined out by the government when again no harm as occurred at that time. There is countless examples of both of these and I doubt you are unaware of them, but do continue to tell me how there is nothing to my argument.

Do we have it as bad as the slaves you are talking about? No, not by a long shot, but we still are in a state of slavery.
 
Last edited:
What that shows is what exactly?

They aren't slaves.

To the American slave perhaps, but to everyone else we are able to say far less than ever before.

If I am interpreting this correctly, we can also look at the Caribbean. The Caribbean was a meat grinder.

I don't need you to preach to me about doing research on something that you yourself don't even understand. Elementary definitions that you just goggled mean nothing to me and do not show any understanding of the condition on your part. Please do not pretend that is not what is going on here. Your standards are fundamentally flawed and show you are nothing but averagely educated on the topic at hand.

I didn't google it. I had worked under historians in which that is their expertise, their main focus of historical research, and had contributed enormously to the understanding of certain topics of slavery, as I had already stated. Don't patronize me when you have demonstrated absolutely no historical knowledge whatsoever, please.
 
Last edited:
I don't need you to preach to me about doing research on something that you yourself don't even understand. Elementary definitions that you just goggled mean nothing to me and do not show any understanding of the condition on your part. Please do not pretend that is not what is going on here. Your standards are fundamentally flawed and show you are nothing but averagely educated on the topic at hand.

Man dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree on that. Most people here know Fiddy is well credentialed. It's part of his field of study. He has degrees and certs in American history covering this.
 
They aren't slaves.

They just don't have ownership, can't practice free travel, and must not speak certain words about their leaders. They also can't consume whatever they want without punishment by people that govern their lives. What else? Well I guess they aren't controlling their health, right? We have that at least. Thank god they can go to the doctor when they want and get services they want that again cause no harm to anyone but themselves. What? They can't? **** me! Well I'm sure you can find something that wouldn't closely relate to a slavery condition. Yes?

The Caribbean was a meat grinder.

So??

I didn't google it. I had worked under historians in which that is their expertise, their main focus of historical research, and had contributed enormously to the understanding of certain topics of slavery, as I had already stated. Don't patronize me when you have demonstrated absolutely no historical knowledge whatsoever, please.

I'm not interested in your empty announcements of superiority of knowledge. If you have it, show it. All I see is an elementary understanding of slavery coming from you. The kind of nonsense you learn in grade school and nothing more.
 
Man dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree on that. Most people here know Fiddy is well credentialed. It's part of his field of study. He has degrees and certs in American history covering this.

If he can make me back down then he would have done it already. It might very be the case he knows more than I do, but I have not seen it. I'm not impressed by someone stuck on extreme cases of slavery going around calling that the only condition that qualifies.
 
Last edited:
Putting aside the fact he doesn't know it's spelled CIVIL and not CIVAL, he's right. The term "civil servant" explicitly excludes people in the military. Military members are considered to be PUBLIC servants.
I always was a crappy speller. Oh well I figure people on here can figure out what I mean well enough, after all debating requires a modicum of intelligence.:shrug:
 
I think we are officially off the reservation on this thread. :2wave: I believe it is about Joe Sixpack vs. Academia. Probalbly might want get back on the road, or not.
 
I'm not interested in your empty announcements of superiority of knowledge. If you have it, show it. All I see is an elementary understanding of slavery coming from you. The kind of nonsense you learn in grade school and nothing more.

If you don't believe me that's too bad. From what I have seen from you, it is your hyperbole beyond comprehension that is clouding the whole discussion. Perhaps you like Googling. That's not so bad, but so long as you are in tune with the historiography of slavery and can grasp the fundamental differences between the existence of a slave and a citizen of the United States in the 21st century. You haven't discussed the same sources I had, at all, let alone developed a grasp of slavery in any sense. You'd get failing marks in any history department for this nonsense you keep peddling.
 
Last edited:
If you don't believe me that's too bad. From what I have seen from you, it is your hyperbole beyond comprehension is clouding the whole discussion. Perhaps you like Googling. That's not so bad, but so long as you are in tune with the historiography of slavery and can grasp the fundamental differences between the existence of a slave and a citizen of the United States in the 21st century. You haven't discussed the same sources I had, at all, let alone developed a grasp of slavery in any sense. You'd get failing marks in any history department for this nonsense you keep peddling.

The man that was just championed for his knowledge has predictably no counter and worse yet he somehow thinks that because its 21 century and we the US that it can't be slavery. Pathetic. We are done here it seems.

Btw, I did say there was a difference between what you are talking about and what I'm talking about. Many times in fact. I see nothing from you to make me change my mind that its still slavery though.
 
Last edited:
Man dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree on that. Most people here know Fiddy is well credentialed. It's part of his field of study. He has degrees and certs in American history covering this.

What is a shamrockwalk?
 
The man that was just championed for his knowledge has predictably no counter and worse yet he somehow thinks that because its 21 century and we the US that it can't be slavery. Pathetic. We are done here it seems.

Yeah, because I have better things to do with my time and am wrapping it up. I merely suggest you actually read the important works before you start spouting off nonsense and telling the entire historical community that they are full of it.
 
Yeah, because I have better things to do with my time and am wrapping it up. I merely suggest you actually read the important works before you start spouting off nonsense and telling the entire historical community that they are full of it.

For someone that was apparently offended by my comments you sure didn't fight very hard against them. You would think someone so offended would take more effort to prove me wrong. You shouldn't really start things you aren't even willing to fight for.
 
If he can make me back down then he would have done it already. It might very be the case he knows more than I do, but I have not seen it. I'm not impressed by someone stuck on extreme cases of slavery going around calling that the only condition that qualifies.

Your definition of slavery is based in your political ideology not in any way historical. Landowners, are not in anyway considered slaves. That cannot not in anyway to be considered extreme. Your definition, however, is.
 
What is a shamrockwalk?

I got the nickname Shamrock for my sometimes incredible luck. So I incorporated it into my love of shoes along with "Walking On Sunshine".
 
Back
Top Bottom