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Academia vs Joe Sixpack

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  • Total voters
    51
Henrin said:
The sad part is they probably won't need any luck, but I stand behind you in your fight against them regardless.
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Most people think you need a whole bunch of money and a regiment of attornies fight the government. It only takes one to screw things up for them.
 
Henrin said:
The government does a good job? Oh please tell me all about how they do a good job and oh do remember freedoms when you talk about it. I have plenty of proof that we are far closer to slaves than free.
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Closer to slaves than free? Don't you think a slave would have had qualms with that statement?
 
Henrin said:
No I don't.
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I suggest you read Frederick Douglass, Booker T. Washington, W.E.B. DuBois, and C. Vann Woodward before you spout off such nonsense.
 
Henrin said:
Speech is many times considered a crime in this country and under the first amendment that is a breach. I will speak my mind and everyone else should do the same. If the government wants to arrest people for words than we know where they stand on the rights of people and the law of the land.
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You mean a breach of the first amendment? Not necessarily. The first amendment, like all the other amendments, is not an absolute. The caselaw on this is long and complicated, but it is the law. There are a number of crimes that involve speech and/or communications (more broadly construed) that are perfectly constitutional. Solicitation is a crime, for instance. Do you not think it should be a crime to say "I'll pay you $10k if you kill my business partner"? How about revealing state secrets? Or telling someone, "If you don't transfer the deed to your house to me, I'll kill your sister." All of those things are crimes. All of them involve speech. None of the laws making those things crimes are unconstitutional. You might reasonably disagree as to the specifics of how the government may legitimately criminalize speech, but you probably shouldn't pretend that it is an absolute right. It never has been, and it shouldn't be, in some narrow contexts.
 
Fiddytree said:
I suggest you read Frederick Douglass, Booker T. Washington, W.E.B. DuBois, and C. Vann Woodward before you spout off such nonsense.
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I suggest you learn what slavery is.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Good, they can speak with my lawyer, and if they prefer charges and I will meet them in court, happily. This is what the first admendment is all about. They dont like it tough. If they charge me then the whole of all the comments will be admissable and the burden of proof will be on them. US district attronies are pretty good, its been said they can convict the ham in a ham sandwich of of murdering the pig which it came, that said they are gona need some luck with this one.
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I'm saying that you should be careful. If you'd prefer to be cavalier, that's your business. But trust me, dealing with the DOJ is not pleasant at all.
 
Fiddytree said:
Closer to slaves than free? Don't you think a slave would have had qualms with that statement?
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I dont know about slaves but I am certainly wondering about indentured servitude.
 
Henrin said:
I suggest you learn what slavery is.
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I would if I hadn't spent years doing that, being tutored by a world expert on the American Colonization Society and slavery.
 
Aderleth said:
You mean a breach of the first amendment? Not necessarily. The first amendment, like all the other amendments, is not an absolute. The caselaw on this is long and complicated, but it is the law. There are a number of crimes that involve speech and/or communications (more broadly construed) that are perfectly constitutional. Solicitation is a crime, for instance. Do you not think it should be a crime to say "I'll pay you $10k if you kill my business partner"? How about revealing state secrets? Or telling someone, "If you don't transfer the deed to your house to me, I'll kill your sister." All of those things are crimes. All of them involve speech. None of the laws making those things crimes are unconstitutional. You might reasonably disagree as to the specifics of how the government may legitimately criminalize speech, but you probably shouldn't pretend that it is an absolute right. It never has been, and it shouldn't be, in some narrow contexts.
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"Congress shall pass no law" Seems like absolute language to me. Speech is also incapable of killing another and threats are not a violation of your rights. Your other example is just planning to harm another.
 
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Fiddytree said:
I would if I hadn't spent years doing that, being tutored by a world expert on the American Colonization Society and slavery.
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I wonder if you actually understand the meaning of liberty.
 
Henrin said:
"Congress shall pass no law" Seems like absolute language to me. Speech is also incapable of killing another and threats are not a violation of your rights.
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So you disagree that all the things I named are crimes, and are constitutional?
 
Aderleth said:
You mean a breach of the first amendment? Not necessarily. The first amendment, like all the other amendments, is not an absolute. The caselaw on this is long and complicated, but it is the law. There are a number of crimes that involve speech and/or communications (more broadly construed) that are perfectly constitutional. Solicitation is a crime, for instance. Do you not think it should be a crime to say "I'll pay you $10k if you kill my business partner"? How about revealing state secrets? Or telling someone, "If you don't transfer the deed to your house to me, I'll kill your sister." All of those things are crimes. All of them involve speech. None of the laws making those things crimes are unconstitutional. You might reasonably disagree as to the specifics of how the government may legitimately criminalize speech, but you probably shouldn't pretend that it is an absolute right. It never has been, and it shouldn't be, in some narrow contexts.
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As far as idealogicaly we are going to disagree as I believe in no such retrictions. That said there is reality. You can be charged with anything. Whether or not it sticks is a different matter altogether.
 
Henrin said:
I wonder if you actually understand the meaning of liberty.
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Does it matter what you think if you don't understand what slavery is?
 
PirateMk1 said:
As far as idealogicaly we are going to disagree as I believe in no such retrictions.

That said there is reality. You can be charged with anything. Whether or not it sticks is a different matter altogether.
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I don't disagree. Being indicted, however, is extremely unpleasant by itself.
 
zstep18 said:
At what point did we become closer to slaves than free?
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When they started to punish us and control us when no harm was committed by our actions. Also when they failed to respect our property rights and are right of free travel without interference. I'm not sure when that happened but I'm not that interested to know either.
 
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Fiddytree said:
Does it matter what you think if you don't understand what slavery is?
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Do you know what the word means or not? If they are violating our liberty as much as they we are closer to slavery than being free.
 
Aderleth said:
So you disagree that all the things I named are crimes, and are constitutional?
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I agree that all of them are crimes, but they are not constitutional. I'm sure you will have all sorts of court cases that say otherwise too. The constitution is after all toilet paper that has been used many times.
 
Henrin said:
Do you know what the word means or not? If they are violating our liberty as much as they we are closer to slavery than being free.
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You were the one who made the claim that we are closer to slavery than freedom, and I took exception to that, just by knowing the historical record on that. Let's not get into a typical Libertarian "liberty" fest when you have deliberately exaggerated our condition to such an extent as to compare yourself to men and women who had no rights at all and were exterminated with little thought at all. It's insulting.
 
Aderleth said:
I'm saying that you should be careful. If you'd prefer to be cavalier, that's your business. But trust me, dealing with the DOJ is not pleasant at all.
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I appreaciate the heads up. But I EARNED my rights with blood, mine and that of my cohorts. I am tired to cowering in some corner hoping they dont come for me. Sun Tzu put it plainly, when in death ground fight. Its time for me to fight. Time to punch the bully in the nose. There is a line that shall not be crossed without consequence. They wish to cross it, so be it, I will meet them in the courtroom to do battle. The want legal war, then they will get it. There is no more compromise, no more backing down.
 
Henrin said:
"Congress shall pass no law" Seems like absolute language to me. Speech is also incapable of killing another and threats are not a violation of your rights. Your other example is just planning to harm another.
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So, can I commit slander and libel against you?
 
Fiddytree said:
You were the one who made the claim that we are closer to slavery than freedom, and I took exception to that, just by knowing the historical record on that. Let's not get into a typical Libertarian "liberty" fest when you have deliberately exaggerated our condition to such an extent as to compare yourself to men and women who had no rights at all and were exterminated with little thought at all. It's insulting.
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And tell me why you think its necessary to be in the condition of blacks in America to be a slave?
 
Gotta love the internet tough guy.
 
Aderleth said:
I don't disagree. Being indicted, however, is extremely unpleasant by itself.
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That I dont doubt. Not one bit. Pleasent or not somethings are worth fighting. Even if the cost is my freedom. I've already risked my life. My freedom is step down.
 
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