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Thread: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

  1. #181
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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Even if we used what Berlin called "societies with slaves," your lives as a citizen in this country are much greater than that of a slave. This crosses all times in history, all areas of the globe, all peoples. You have more rights, more freedom than a slave. Period.
    Could slaves own land? Can we? Think that about that question before you answer because you will find both answers are no. The only way to truly buy land is by a special almost impossible to get deed that basically says you DO actually own the land. This also comes with pass on property taxes(the rent) and they can no longer take your property(the ownership) This deed is only available in Texas and even then they do NOT advertise it.

    Do we have the freedom to say whatever we want about our leaders? Did slaves? On both fronts the answer is no. They can arrest us if we say something and not even have to sentence us to jail us for however long they feel like. With slaves if they spoke badly about the slave owner they were sold, killed or punished in some other way. Better today? Sure, but not really freedom, is it?

    Can we leave whenever we want and can we come whenever we please? Yes? No again. There are many laws on such matters that control coming and going. They can even tax certain people when they leave the country because apparently they didn't pay the government enough.

    I'm sure there is much to do before we become exactly like the American slaves of the past, but my point stands that we are closer to be being a slave than being free.

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Could slaves own land? Can we? Think that about that question before you answer because you will find both answers are no. The only way to truly buy land is by a special almost impossible to get deed that basically says you DO actually own the land. This also comes with pass on property taxes(the rent) and they can no longer take your property(the ownership) This deed is only available in Texas and even then they do NOT advertise it.

    Do we have the freedom to say whatever we want about our leaders? Did slaves? On both fronts the answer is no. They can arrest us if we say something and not even have to sentence us to jail us for however long they feel like. With slaves if they spoke badly about the slave owner they were sold, killed or punished in some other way. Better today? Sure, but not really freedom, is it?

    Can we leave whenever we want and can we come whenever we please? Yes? No again. There are many laws on such matters that control coming and going. They can even tax certain people when they leave the country because apparently they didn't pay the government enough.

    I'm sure there is much to do before we become exactly like the American slaves of the past, but my point stands that we are closer to be being a slave than being free.
    I'm in farm country. The answer is, yes, there are farm owners here that own a lot of land. My grandfather owned land for decades for his ranch. My relatives are ranchers that own land. Hell, I spend the last week looking over land plots of farms from the 1890s to about the 1930s. Ownership abound.

    Yes, we do. This entire forum demonstrates that. A year ago on a college campus here, we had Tea Party rallies that trashed the President. Were they arrested? No. Was there any fear of that happening? No.

    You're insulting the memory of slaves with this nonsense.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-03-12 at 11:31 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I wasn't talking about you, but pirate.
    Would you expect any less from someone who's handle is Pirate?
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'm in farm country. The answer is, yes, there are farm owners here that own a lot of land. My grandfather owned land for decades for his ranch. My relatives are ranchers that own land. Hell, I spend the last week looking over land plots of farms from the 1890s to about the 1930s. Ownership abound.
    Do these farmers have to pay property taxes and does the state have eminent domain over it? How many rules do you the farmers have to follow? Want to take a guess? if you want to talk of ownership how can you claim the above is ownership?

    Yes, we do. This entire forum demonstrates that. A year ago on a college campus here, we had Tea Party rallies that trashed the President. Were they arrested? No. Was there any fear of that happening? No.
    Yes, you are allowed to say some things about the president, but can you say whatever you want?

    You're insulting the memory of slaves with this nonsense.
    I'm not insulting anyone and if you have a problem with it why don't you go propose a law about not insulting American slaves? I'm sure the government will go along with it to some degree.

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    My grandfather never thought he was a slave. My entire extended family never thought they were slaves. My friends who had family farms never thought of themselves as slaves.

    "Yes, you are allowed to say some things about the president, but can you say whatever you want? "
    -No, but you can say a hell of a lot more than you used to be able to at the same time in history when slavery was in full-force, and long after it was banned.

    "I'm not insulting anyone and if you have a problem with it why don't you go propose a law about not insulting American slaves? I'm sure the government will go along with it to some degree."

    -Being snarky doesn't change the fact that you are looking more and more ridiculous each time you continue with this. Again, I beg you, pick up countless numbers of books and journal articles on slavery.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    My grandfather never thought he was a slave. My entire extended family never thought they were slaves. My friends who had family farms never thought of themselves as slaves.
    What that shows is what exactly?

    -No, but you can say a hell of a lot more than you used to be able to at the same time in history when slavery was in full-force, and long after it was banned.
    To the American slave perhaps, but to everyone else we are able to say far less than ever before.

    -Being snarky doesn't change the fact that you are looking more and more ridiculous each time you continue with this. Again, I beg you, pick up countless numbers of books and journal articles on slavery.
    I don't need you to preach to me about doing research on something that you yourself don't even understand. Elementary definitions that you just goggled mean nothing to me and do not show any understanding of the condition on your part. Please do not pretend that is not what is going on here. Your standards are fundamentally flawed and show you are nothing but averagely educated on the topic at hand.

    Liberty - is the idea that we can do whatever it is that we want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of another.

    Slavery- is the state of being unable to act peaceably without retaliation by unharmed parties.

    In many ways we are unable to act in a peaceful manner without permission from the state and if we do act towards what is restricted without such permission we will be fined or jailed for punishment. There is other examples where we must follow the rules lined out by the government when again no harm as occurred at that time. There is countless examples of both of these and I doubt you are unaware of them, but do continue to tell me how there is nothing to my argument.

    Do we have it as bad as the slaves you are talking about? No, not by a long shot, but we still are in a state of slavery.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-04-12 at 01:50 AM.

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    What that shows is what exactly?
    They aren't slaves.

    To the American slave perhaps, but to everyone else we are able to say far less than ever before.
    If I am interpreting this correctly, we can also look at the Caribbean. The Caribbean was a meat grinder.

    I don't need you to preach to me about doing research on something that you yourself don't even understand. Elementary definitions that you just goggled mean nothing to me and do not show any understanding of the condition on your part. Please do not pretend that is not what is going on here. Your standards are fundamentally flawed and show you are nothing but averagely educated on the topic at hand.
    I didn't google it. I had worked under historians in which that is their expertise, their main focus of historical research, and had contributed enormously to the understanding of certain topics of slavery, as I had already stated. Don't patronize me when you have demonstrated absolutely no historical knowledge whatsoever, please.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-04-12 at 02:01 AM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  8. #188
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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post

    I don't need you to preach to me about doing research on something that you yourself don't even understand. Elementary definitions that you just goggled mean nothing to me and do not show any understanding of the condition on your part. Please do not pretend that is not what is going on here. Your standards are fundamentally flawed and show you are nothing but averagely educated on the topic at hand.
    Man dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree on that. Most people here know Fiddy is well credentialed. It's part of his field of study. He has degrees and certs in American history covering this.

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    They aren't slaves.
    They just don't have ownership, can't practice free travel, and must not speak certain words about their leaders. They also can't consume whatever they want without punishment by people that govern their lives. What else? Well I guess they aren't controlling their health, right? We have that at least. Thank god they can go to the doctor when they want and get services they want that again cause no harm to anyone but themselves. What? They can't? **** me! Well I'm sure you can find something that wouldn't closely relate to a slavery condition. Yes?

    The Caribbean was a meat grinder.
    So??

    I didn't google it. I had worked under historians in which that is their expertise, their main focus of historical research, and had contributed enormously to the understanding of certain topics of slavery, as I had already stated. Don't patronize me when you have demonstrated absolutely no historical knowledge whatsoever, please.
    I'm not interested in your empty announcements of superiority of knowledge. If you have it, show it. All I see is an elementary understanding of slavery coming from you. The kind of nonsense you learn in grade school and nothing more.

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    Re: Academia vs Joe Sixpack

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Man dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree on that. Most people here know Fiddy is well credentialed. It's part of his field of study. He has degrees and certs in American history covering this.
    If he can make me back down then he would have done it already. It might very be the case he knows more than I do, but I have not seen it. I'm not impressed by someone stuck on extreme cases of slavery going around calling that the only condition that qualifies.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-04-12 at 02:31 AM.

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