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Are Unions Still Viable?

Are Unions Still Viable?


  • Total voters
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One other reason is that the advice given to companies trying to stop a union is simple: pay your people what unions shops pay and give them the same benefits. Thus, many non union companies and their employees are riding on the success of the union movement and their workers do not even realize it.

This is an excellent point.
 
:sigh: economic laws, haymarket. you are arguing that corporate entities such as unions have ceased to have the same aggregate effects in the last couple of decades that they had in the previous 4 decades. Your evidence for doing so seems to be "i have a study that agrees with me and disagrees with you".

the strongest bit of evidence for the OP remains simple history - unions are doomed because of the destruction they bring to bear on the industries and employers they attach themselves to. they are a vanishingly small section of the private sector, and even their public sector allies are finding it increasingly difficult to remain tied to them.



:lol: tell me more about how foriegn outsourcing will have uniquely not effected union states. :) This ought to be fun.

You are simply anti-union.

History proves your assumption are false. Look at the greatest period of prosperity in the last century in America - the Fifties and Sixties - and they are also the period of highest percentage of union membership. Your allegations about history and unions are simply false and not supported.

As to foreign outsourcing and not impacting union states - I have no idea what you are talking about. It seems that neither do you since you simply threw a few words out there and did not develop the thought.
 
private sector unions are still viable in certain aspects.

public sector unions are not viable, except as campaign financiers.
 
Unions proved themselves no longer 'viable' when they became enmeshed with political parties and organized crime. Today, unions reward nepotism and preserve incompetence. They are every bit as much of the problem with job loss in this country as are industry owners. They are leeches and parasites. They dont 'create' anything but rather suck and drain off resources.

Thats just your opinion...there are republican involved with organized crime and theres been people from all walks of life involved in organized crime.
Organized crime is not limited to the Italian Mafia...Jamie Dimon Ceo of Jpmorgan was involved in organized crime...the list is endless.
Leeches and parasites are all the banks that have been LOSING IN COURT left and right for sucking the blood from the working class daily....you need to get off your silly republican talking points and find some reality.
 
Thats just your opinion...there are republican involved with organized crime and theres been people from all walks of life involved in organized crime.
Organized crime is not limited to the Italian Mafia...Jamie Dimon Ceo of Jpmorgan was involved in organized crime...the list is endless.
Leeches and parasites are all the banks that have been LOSING IN COURT left and right for sucking the blood from the working class daily....you need to get off your silly republican talking points and find some reality.
You and your 'liker' are the best counter arguments I could possibly make.

Unions are leeches. They dont start businesses. They dont hire people. They have outlived their usefulness and today serve to protect incompetent workers and stuff political campaign coffers.
 
You are simply anti-union.

History proves your assumption are false. Look at the greatest period of prosperity in the last century in America - the Fifties and Sixties - and they are also the period of highest percentage of union membership. Your allegations about history and unions are simply false and not supported.


As to foreign outsourcing and not impacting union states - I have no idea what you are talking about. It seems that neither do you since you simply threw a few words out there and did not develop the thought.

the 50's and 60's were not the greatest period of prosperity in the last century....nor would I attribute prosperity to the presence of unions ( they, however, cannot me discounted either)
 
the 50's and 60's were not the greatest period of prosperity in the last century....nor would I attribute prosperity to the presence of unions ( they, however, cannot me discounted either)

in your opinion, what was?
 
in your opinion, what was?

i'm hestitent to claim any periods of economic prosperity as being the "greatest"( each period is a little different, and it all depends on the metrics employed to rank each of them)... but as a matter of opinion, i'd probably say 82' to 99'..and there is an argument for 20' to 29' being pretty badass as well.

if we go back just beyond a century, the period which you admittedly despise.. the gilded age.. surpasses( by most metrics) all periods of economic prosperity before and since.
 
You and your 'liker' are the best counter arguments I could possibly make.

Unions are leeches. They dont start businesses. They dont hire people. They have outlived their usefulness and today serve to protect incompetent workers and stuff political campaign coffers.


You and your LIKERS are to be what theyve always been ignored and laughed at...and lastly soundly rejected, like you will be AGAIN on nov 5th
 
You and your LIKERS are to be what theyve always been ignored and laughed at...and lastly soundly rejected, like you will be AGAIN on nov 5th
Oh I have no doubt. I expect you and the Obamaphone crowd will be dancing in the streets celebrating another 4 years of the last 4 years. Ive always said so. My candidate will probably poll at about 2-3%. 4 years from now...32 trillion in debt from now...with US as strong and economically viable as Greece...you and others will line up to support the next crop of clowns. Rinse lather repeat.
 
Yes of course they are. Ask Chicago's teachers...
 
Oh I have no doubt. I expect you and the Obamaphone crowd will be dancing in the streets celebrating another 4 years of the last 4 years. Ive always said so. My candidate will probably poll at about 2-3%. 4 years from now...32 trillion in debt from now...with US as strong and economically viable as Greece...you and others will line up to support the next crop of clowns. Rinse lather repeat.

While your sniffling and whining over your rejection. You and your likers should be used to rejection, the country always rejects far lefties and far righters....most of the country has normal thoughts and expectations and realize that all citizens have basic needs....so not to worry you will survive the rejection until your rejected again in 2016 :)
 
I will give you the perfect example to answer your post...whether you accept it is up to you....I worked for a company and I was in the union...the shop steward recieved numerous complaints from union workers about an unsafe working condition. He went to management brought up the concern, management blew him off and said there is no safety issues it was worker laziness and error that caused the injuries....The shop steward called the Local President and explained the situation and the union had their lawyer look into it....the lawyer found that in a 7 yr period 34 employees were injured over this steamer...he checked further and found the steamer not to be up to safety code...he contacted management and afforded them an opportunity to JUST FIX THE STEAMER....they refused and kept denying there was a problem...the lawyer took the next step osha stepped investigated the steamer said it was NOT UP TO SAFTEY cod and they had x amount of time to fix it...and then the fines start.....they fixed it...they could have saved alot of time and alot of problems.....THATS what unions and Osha does...some people just cannot understand how unscrupulous and uncaring some in business. The workers and their unions are not the villains republicans always want to make them out to be...you have villains of your own

Or, the worker could have just reported it to OSHA without all of the middlemen. Basically all the local president did was something that the worker could have done anyway. BTW, work places are required to have a poster up providing an anonymous hotline to call in case of something like this. If the workplace is in violation of this, the worker can Google the number and report the violation and the lack of a poster. The worker is paying union dues for something he could have done to begin with.
 
I recently attended a course where I was instructed on the inspection of OSHA code as well as Laser, Radiation, small arms firing range, etc safety. I started thinking while I was subjected to death by Power Point "With all of these OSHA codes, minimum wage, workman's comp laws, etc. What do union's do?" Therein lies the question. What DO unions do? OSHA code, if you are not familiar with it, is the epitomy of ridiculous regulations imposed by the Federal gov't. Some of it is good, I will admit, but dictating how many toilets I have to have on a work site is going a little far. Minimum wage is something we are all familiar with. Workman's Comp is very complicated however, it is required in all states depending upon the states regulations. Unions don't have to negotiate safer working environments, the Federal gov't does that already. They don't have to negotiate salary, the Federal gov't does that already. They don't have to make businesses compensate injured employees, the state governments does that already. What I see of unions is almost always bad. They demand pay that is more than the market rate. They demand benefits that are more than the market rate. They demand work conditions that are more than OSHA code requires. Unions, IMO, were needed in the early industrialization of the US. Now, they are nothing more than an irritant. Am I wrong?
:arrow:***Please, keep the debate civil. Just because someone holds a different opinion than you doesn't mean they are a lesser form of human than you.***

Labor has been a vialble part of the American job for generations, because labor sets a standards that non union companies have to compete with. The government for its part has been forced through union eforts to regognize and the legislate for better conditions and wages as well. Now, since 1980, look what's happened to wages and benifts. The pension system as we have known it, since at least the 50s in under direct assault with an eye toward extinction. As far as the courst and labor conditions are concerned, I can tell that in most if not all cases it takes up to two years to get resloved and your chances are 50-50 going into it. With a union contract, the results are instant. Non union compaines fire at will, not so with a good contract, the company must show "good cause".

I'm sort of with you on Osha, I don't much care for it myself, it adds more to the coffers and just creates a bureaucracy that was, up until then, not needed with a union contract: wild cat strikes used to solve a lot of the little problems as well. But with the non union world, governemtn has becomne a necessary factor becasue companies won;t see to these things themselves as a rule.

So, yes, unions are still a very important part of the American job market.
 
While your sniffling and whining over your rejection. You and your likers should be used to rejection, the country always rejects far lefties and far righters....most of the country has normal thoughts and expectations and realize that all citizens have basic needs....so not to worry you will survive the rejection until your rejected again in 2016 :)

status quo uber alles!
 
Or, the worker could have just reported it to OSHA without all of the middlemen. Basically all the local president did was something that the worker could have done anyway. BTW, work places are required to have a poster up providing an anonymous hotline to call in case of something like this. If the workplace is in violation of this, the worker can Google the number and report the violation and the lack of a poster. The worker is paying union dues for something he could have done to begin with.

Nope if the worker reports to osha he opens himself up to retaliation by the management. Thats what unions are for to represent the workers...and thats what osha is for...the managements that refuse to repair or fix unsafe working conditions....
Osha was established because of the chronic horrific working conditions american workers were under during the sweatshop days...that mentality is still prevalent...they just cant get away with it anymore...sorry marine...I dont share you view that business and business people are all wonderful..
 
Labor has been a vialble part of the American job for generations, because labor sets a standards that non union companies have to compete with. The government for its part has been forced through union eforts to regognize and the legislate for better conditions and wages as well. Now, since 1980, look what's happened to wages and benifts. The pension system as we have known it, since at least the 50s in under direct assault with an eye toward extinction. As far as the courst and labor conditions are concerned, I can tell that in most if not all cases it takes up to two years to get resloved and your chances are 50-50 going into it. With a union contract, the results are instant. Non union compaines fire at will, not so with a good contract, the company must show "good cause".

I'm sort of with you on Osha, I don't much care for it myself, it adds more to the coffers and just creates a bureaucracy that was, up until then, not needed with a union contract: wild cat strikes used to solve a lot of the little problems as well. But with the non union world, governemtn has becomne a necessary factor becasue companies won;t see to these things themselves as a rule.

So, yes, unions are still a very important part of the American job market.

the "fire at will" thing is entirely dependent on the employment contract.... it's false to claim all non-union companies can fire at will.... many do, in fact, have "good cause" clauses... many don't

that said, I agree that unions are still viable in the private sector.
 
Nope if the worker reports to osha he opens himself up to retaliation by the management. Thats what unions are for to represent the workers...and thats what osha is for...the managements that refuse to repair or fix unsafe working conditions....
Osha was established because of the chronic horrific working conditions american workers were under during the sweatshop days...that mentality is still prevalent...they just cant get away with it anymore...sorry marine...I dont share you view that business and business people are all wonderful..

do you know what "anonymous hotline" means?
 
I am a union steward with the US government, and Unions really have no power. We can't strike. If we, by 30% of the total number of employees in the office have been elected to represent them, we can only hold management's feet to the fire by what is written in the union contract, or if management is requiring employees to do something that is against the law or unsafe, then we can call it to their attention. If they refuse to stop what they are asking, we can file a grievance and eventually bring it up before a judge. If management comes up with something that is not in the contract, they are supposed to meet with the union to iron out the plans, but the union cannot stop management's planned move, the Union is only there to make things easier and more explainable to the employees. In a nutshell, government unions are powerless, but their leadership is in the tank for Obama. I, on the other hand, do not support Obama, nor any of their the socialist agenda.
 
Public Unions should be abolished. As long as the unions are allowed to continue buying Democrat politicians, fair bargaining does not exist and the public gets screwed!!!!!!!!!
 
the "fire at will" thing is entirely dependent on the employment contract.... it's false to claim all non-union companies can fire at will.... many do, in fact, have "good cause" clauses... many don't

that said, I agree that unions are still viable in the private sector.

I was speaking in terms of the general rule.
 
Nope if the worker reports to osha he opens himself up to retaliation by the management. Thats what unions are for to represent the workers...and thats what osha is for...the managements that refuse to repair or fix unsafe working conditions....
Osha was established because of the chronic horrific working conditions american workers were under during the sweatshop days...that mentality is still prevalent...they just cant get away with it anymore...sorry marine...I dont share you view that business and business people are all wonderful..

Anonymous brother, anonymous. You don't have to identify yourself when you call in the violation. I don't own a view that business and business people are all wonderful either.
 
Public Unions should be abolished. As long as the unions are allowed to continue buying Democrat politicians, fair bargaining does not exist and the public gets screwed!!!!!!!!!

Well, since you put it in that font and size, everyone will listen now:roll:
 
Public Unions should be abolished. As long as the unions are allowed to continue buying Democrat politicians, fair bargaining does not exist and the public gets screwed!!!!!!!!!

that's a faulty rationale to use...
 
I was speaking in terms of the general rule.

I figured you were... I just felt like pointing out that the union talking point wasn't accurate.

personally, i'm a big fan of at-will employment law... and the benefits it provides.
 
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