View Poll Results: Are Unions Still Viable?

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  • Yes

    27 48.21%
  • No

    16 28.57%
  • Sometimes

    13 23.21%
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Thread: Are Unions Still Viable?

  1. #61
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Were they ever viable?
    "The assumption that animals are without rights and the illusion that our treatment of them has no moral significance is a positively outrageous example of Western crudity and barbarity. Universal compassion is the only guarantee of morality." - Schopenhauer

  2. #62
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    no. I am anti public union, because I think that when government becomes its' own special interest, it threatens responsible self governance in a manner that has few realistic checks.

    Unions themselves I think are merely usually destructive, which simply means that they should be subjected (like everything else) to the competition of the marketplace. Where Unions are beneficial, they will survive and thrive. Where they are not, they won't.
    Government isn't a single entity, for example government workers (like teachers or cops) don't make laws and are thus not their own special interest, they don't set their own pay and so on.

    Also banning public union can be seen as a market distortion, since it gives the public sector a competative advantage over the private sector especially when they are competing.

    Also when you say beneficial, beneficial to whome ... your assuming the market chooses outcomes which are beneficial for everyone, it doesn't, it only measures benefit by profit, which ignores all sorts of externalities or internal contradictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    yeah. All you have to do is destroy the rest of the worlds' industrial base and you, too, can have great manufacturing growth.

    however, in reality, you are incorrect, the 50s and 60s as a "golden era" are largely the result of the fact that they were measured against the previous two decades, which had been marked by Depression and War. Moving from 0 to 1 is a much larger percentage gain than moving from 20 to 30. Furthermore, union membership peaked in 1954; meaning that 75% of the era you have identified as a time of economic growth was occurring in a period of union decline.
    yeah, but the countries that were destroyed also grew a LOT under social democratic governments with extremely strong labor and very weak capitalists.

    They are the godlen era, compared to the previous two decades and the later decades ...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    you argued that the effects of unions are different now because of our increasingly globalized economy - apparently forgetting that the economic losses associated with the impacts of unions have been exacerbated as the economy has globalized. There is a reason why Detroit is a failed city and Toyota is building factories across the South.
    If that were true then the German automotive industry would be in the ****ter since Unions in Germany are strong than American Unions ever were.

  3. #63
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I recently attended a course where I was instructed on the inspection of OSHA code as well as Laser, Radiation, small arms firing range, etc safety. I started thinking while I was subjected to death by Power Point "With all of these OSHA codes, minimum wage, workman's comp laws, etc. What do union's do?" Therein lies the question. What DO unions do? OSHA code, if you are not familiar with it, is the epitomy of ridiculous regulations imposed by the Federal gov't. Some of it is good, I will admit, but dictating how many toilets I have to have on a work site is going a little far. Minimum wage is something we are all familiar with. Workman's Comp is very complicated however, it is required in all states depending upon the states regulations. Unions don't have to negotiate safer working environments, the Federal gov't does that already. They don't have to negotiate salary, the Federal gov't does that already. They don't have to make businesses compensate injured employees, the state governments does that already. What I see of unions is almost always bad. They demand pay that is more than the market rate. They demand benefits that are more than the market rate. They demand work conditions that are more than OSHA code requires. Unions, IMO, were needed in the early industrialization of the US. Now, they are nothing more than an irritant. Am I wrong?
    ***Please, keep the debate civil. Just because someone holds a different opinion than you doesn't mean they are a lesser form of human than you.***
    They are less needed and powerful as a few decades ago but I wouldn't say they're useless. Mixed fealings about them too, can be good, can be bad.
    One learns more by listening than talking.

  4. #64
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    I chose "sometimes", but on the closer side to "no".

    Places like China are where unions are needed most.

  5. #65
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    I chose "sometimes", but on the closer side to "no".

    Places like China are where unions are needed most.
    China also doesnt' have OSHA, that's why. To be honest, if I HAD to choose on this particular subject, I'd take gov't regulation (OSHA, Workman's Comp, etc) over unions any day of the week. A union's entire business nowadays is what they can get the worker. Whether it be longer breaks, better benefits, a steeper pay increase scale, etc. If they are not getting workers more and more stuff, they go away. They have ceased to look out for the worker as much as they are now a simple for profit organization that seeks to please a "customer". In this case, pleasing is more of the aforementioned items and the customer being union members. Worker safety and welfare went out the window a long time ago.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #66
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    LOL - no reason for unions in USA?

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    But I will tell you to compare USA labor law with German labor law..........

    Al l german jobs have 20 days paid vacation......ALL of them.

    Plus there is the fact you are nothing but a welfare leech (military worker) and are required to work at all hours for no additional pay......LOL.
    Or can you show us all Over Time in the UCMJ LMAO!!!!!

    Some reading for you so you learn something.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_County_War
    Last edited by 274ina; 10-02-12 at 03:19 PM.

  7. #67
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    LOL - no reason for unions in USA?

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    But I will tell you to compare USA labor law with German labor law..........

    Al l german jobs have 20 days paid vacation......ALL of them.

    Plus there is the fact you are nothing but a welfare leech (military worker) and are required to work at all hours for no additional pay......LOL.
    Or can you show us all Over Time in the UCMJ LMAO!!!!!

    Some reading for you so you learn something.

    Ludlow Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Harlan County War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Let's see, should I fall for the noob trap and seriously respond to this?.........Nah. I won't go down that dark road. If I do, you would probably be to stupid to figure out what that little notification tab at the top of the webpage does anyway and not respond. You already proved your lack the knowledge of the webpage to hit the "Reply With Quote" button so I would know you even posted this rabble. If I hadn't checked the thread, I would have never seen your "welfare leech" verbal diarhea. As it is, your statement makes no sense (what does the UCMJ have to do with anything) and I won't enteratain honest debate with you.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  8. #68
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Sometimes unions are viable. In the private sector, union demands are somewhat controlled by the consumer base for the product/service. When the cost of union demands raises the price of private goods and services to the point of being non-competitive, the company can no longer earn a profit, the company closes and everyone looses.

    Public unions are a different matter. When public unions demand raises the cost of public services, taxpayers are forced to fund those services through tax hikes over which they have no control. There is no balance where the state, county, municipality can disintegrate, leaving everyone out of a job. They just raise taxes, and taxpayers have no option to take their purchasing dollars to lower-priced competition.

    Only 24 states still have public unions fleecing taxpayers who have no power, no choice, no options when faced with escalating costs of public employee demands. The other 26 states have comprehensive civil service legislation in place that provides fair salary/benefit packages without robbing taxpayers to capitulate to unaffordable demands. In my opinion, all states should have such civil service legislation and public unions should be prohibited.

    I've been at the negotiating table with public employee unions. They do not give a damn about increasing taxes or even loosing public jobs as long as they get the benefits they want for seniority-protected members, starting with the negotiating committee. Legislatures and councils will raise taxes without a peep, as long as they are coerced that public safety personnel will picket threatening that residents will be mugged in the streets, their homes will be allowed to burn down, streets will turn into war zones if their demands are not met.

    Threats and coercion to force their hands into taxpayer pockets without any oversight or accountability make public unions nothing more than a group of legalized thugs. A pox on them all.

  9. #69
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Let's see, should I fall for the noob trap and seriously respond to this?.........Nah. I won't go down that dark road. If I do, you would probably be to stupid to figure out what that little notification tab at the top of the webpage does anyway and not respond. You already proved your lack the knowledge of the webpage to hit the "Reply With Quote" button so I would know you even posted this rabble. If I hadn't checked the thread, I would have never seen your "welfare leech" verbal diarhea. As it is, your statement makes no sense (what does the UCMJ have to do with anything) and I won't enteratain honest debate with you.
    The UCMJ is your work rules.......

    And here is why unions are needed in USA.


    Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
    Paid Vacation
    FMLA
    Sick Leave
    Social Security
    Minimum Wage
    Civil Rights Act/Title VII (Prohibits Employer Discrimination)
    8-Hour Work Day
    Overtime Pay
    Child Labor Laws
    Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
    40 Hour Work Week
    Worker's Compensation (Worker's Comp)
    Unemployment Insurance
    Pensions
    Workplace Safety Standards and Regulations
    Employer Health Care Insurance
    Collective Bargaining Rights for Employees
    Wrongful Termination Laws
    Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
    Whistleblower Protection Laws
    Employee Polygraph Protect Act (Prohibits Employer from using a lie detector test on an employee)
    Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
    Compensation increases and Evaluations (Raises)
    Sexual Harassment Laws
    Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
    Holiday Pay
    Employer Dental, Life, and Vision Insurance
    Privacy Rights
    Pregnancy and Parental Leave
    Military Leave
    The Right to Strike
    Public Education for Children
    Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 (Requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work)
    Laws Ending Sweatshops in the United States


    none of which military "workers" have.......and know nothing about. ( 9 years USAR so I know military LOL)

  10. #70
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    I voted no...........Unions were a good thing in the nineteen thirties but outllived their usefullness and no one should be forced to join one.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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