View Poll Results: Are Unions Still Viable?

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  • Yes

    27 48.21%
  • No

    16 28.57%
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Thread: Are Unions Still Viable?

  1. #51
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    I think it's worthy to note that 43 states have laws on the books that stipulate workers may not be retaliated against for performing an action that complies with public policy. ( at will employment exemption laws)

    ...such as, calling the OSHA hotline.

  2. #52
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    i'm hestitent to claim any periods of economic prosperity as being the "greatest"( each period is a little different, and it all depends on the metrics employed to rank each of them)... but as a matter of opinion, i'd probably say 82' to 99'..and there is an argument for 20' to 29' being pretty badass as well.

    if we go back just beyond a century, the period which you admittedly despise.. the gilded age.. surpasses( by most metrics) all periods of economic prosperity before and since.
    First, we were talking about the 20th century and the gilded age was in the 19th.

    Second, I believe the growth that occurred in the Fifties eclipsed the previous five decades of the first half of the century.

    Economy in The 1950s

    The economy overall grew by 37% during the 1950s. At the end of the decade, the median American family had 30% more purchasing power than at the beginning. Inflation, which had wreaked havoc on the economy immediately after World War II, was minimal, in part because of Eisenhower's persistent efforts to balance the federal budget. Except for a mild recession in 1954 and a more serious one in 1958, unemployment remained low, bottoming at less than 4.5% in the middle of the decade.

    I would agree with you that there were some boom years during the later 80's and early 90's as well, perhaps even more than the Fifties and early Sixties. I would have to see the data. But I would hope that you could see those two as the best of the century.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I figured you were... I just felt like pointing out that the union talking point wasn't accurate.

    personally, i'm a big fan of at-will employment law... and the benefits it provides.
    Uh, that's not a talking point: it's a fact. And I see no benefit to at will firing.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  4. #54
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Uh, that's not a talking point: it's a fact. And I see no benefit to at will firing.
    of course you don't see any benefit.

  5. #55
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    of course you don't see any benefit.
    excellet answer
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    First, we were talking about the 20th century and the gilded age was in the 19th.

    Second, I believe the growth that occurred in the Fifties eclipsed the previous five decades of the first half of the century.

    Economy in The 1950s




    I would agree with you that there were some boom years during the later 80's and early 90's as well, perhaps even more than the Fifties and early Sixties. I would have to see the data. But I would hope that you could see those two as the best of the century.
    in the grand scheme, finding out which period was the "greatest" doesn't matter much..I think we both acknowledge that different periods of economic growth did , in fact, exist... 20's, 50's, 60's, 80's, and 90's...all periods of growth.

    I'm not sure how you attribute the economic growth of the 50' 60's , though

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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    excellet answer
    were you expecting a lesson on the benefits of at will employment?

  8. #58
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    were you expecting a lesson on the benefits of at will employment?
    I'm not expecting anything other than a decent answer.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  9. #59
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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You are simply anti-union.
    no. I am anti public union, because I think that when government becomes its' own special interest, it threatens responsible self governance in a manner that has few realistic checks.

    Unions themselves I think are merely usually destructive, which simply means that they should be subjected (like everything else) to the competition of the marketplace. Where Unions are beneficial, they will survive and thrive. Where they are not, they won't.

    History proves your assumption are false. Look at the greatest period of prosperity in the last century in America - the Fifties and Sixties - and they are also the period of highest percentage of union membership. Your allegations about history and unions are simply false and not supported.
    yeah. All you have to do is destroy the rest of the worlds' industrial base and you, too, can have great manufacturing growth.

    however, in reality, you are incorrect, the 50s and 60s as a "golden era" are largely the result of the fact that they were measured against the previous two decades, which had been marked by Depression and War. Moving from 0 to 1 is a much larger percentage gain than moving from 20 to 30. Furthermore, union membership peaked in 1954; meaning that 75% of the era you have identified as a time of economic growth was occurring in a period of union decline.

    As to foreign outsourcing and not impacting union states - I have no idea what you are talking about. It seems that neither do you since you simply threw a few words out there and did not develop the thought.
    you argued that the effects of unions are different now because of our increasingly globalized economy - apparently forgetting that the economic losses associated with the impacts of unions have been exacerbated as the economy has globalized. There is a reason why Detroit is a failed city and Toyota is building factories across the South.
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-30-12 at 07:34 PM.

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    Re: Are Unions Still Viable?

    cpwill wrote
    There is a reason why Detroit is a failed city and Toyota is building factories across the South.
    It's not just Toyota, several foreign car companies have opened plants across the South

    Washington Independent
    Alabama, for example, secured construction of a Mercedes-Benz plant in 1993 by offering $253 million in state and local tax breaks, worker training and land improvement. For Honda, the state’s sweetener surrounding a 1999 deal to build a mini-van plant was $158 million in similar perks, adding $90 million in enticements when the company expanded the plant three years later. A 2001 deal with Toyota left the company with $29 million in taxpayer gifts.

    Alabama is hardly alone. Corker’s Tennessee recently lured Volkswagen to build a manufacturing plant in Chattanooga, offering the German automaker tax breaks, training and land preparation that could total $577 million. In 2005, the state inspired Nissan to relocate its headquarters from southern California by offering $197 million in incentives, including $20 million in utility savings.

    In 1992, South Carolina snagged a BMW plant for $150 million in giveaways. In Mississippi in 2003, Nissan was lured with $363 million. In Georgia, a still-under-construction Kia plant received breaks estimated to be $415 million.
    Some interesting facts to be found in this article about the Mercedes plant in Alabama
    Ten years after Mercedes, Alabama town still pans for gold

    Recruiters put together a $253 million incentive package to attract an already profitable automaker. Winning the first Mercedes-Benz plant in the United States, the state got what it wanted: an image boost and thousands of high-paying jobs.

    Was it worth it? Nearly a decade later, it's still difficult to tell.
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