View Poll Results: Where do you draw the line? Who would you help? You can choose more than one

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • Physically or Mentally Handicapped

    53 85.48%
  • Cant seem to keep a job. Too tired to get up

    6 9.68%
  • Developmentally Handicapped

    48 77.42%
  • Poor who truely need help

    43 69.35%
  • All the poor no matter what the circumstance

    19 30.65%
  • Too obese or depressed to work

    7 11.29%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Helping the Needy and the Poor

  1. #31
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    My big gripe is that SSI "tells" people to go to work, but punishes them for doing so by disproportionately reducing benefits for hours worked..inducing many of the disabled to forego the desired job (and increased independence) and independent housing so they can actually afford to pay for services they need (thus leaving them unemployed and more dependent upon family/guardians).
    I think this is a legitimate complaint. It would encourage people who actually are trying to work and contribute to their own care to gradually reduce payments until they truly get back on their feet. Immediately taking away benefits makes their life harder not easier. If you have kids you have to start paying for care, you have to pay more for gas, insurance, etc., Give just a little more incentive for those going back to work and weed out more of the freeloaders to pay for it.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  2. #32
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Sounds fair to me. If you're able to work, then why not work?
    Maybe because there are more people than jobs.

  3. #33
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I wasn't aware of that, but I remember hearing that in one of the states (can't remember which one), it is estimated that about 25% of the disability recipients are abusing the system, and I know that it's growing by leaps and bounds for the past few years.
    Can you tell me how you know this? Is there a link?

  4. #34
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    My big gripe is that SSI "tells" people to go to work, but punishes them for doing so by disproportionately reducing benefits for hours worked..inducing many of the disabled to forego the desired job (and increased independence) and independent housing so they can actually afford to pay for services they need (thus leaving them unemployed and more dependent upon family/guardians).
    SSI is a truly ****ed thing.
    Some of these people want to try to work, but are penalized by loosing their necessary medical benefits.

    Health care reform should of started with things like this, first.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    Maybe because there are more people than jobs.
    I believe there is a job for anyone who truly wants to work.

  6. #36
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    Can you tell me how you know this? Is there a link?
    Certain things can cause someone to become disabled — a chronic illness, for example, or an accident. One thing that should not cause people to be categorized as disabled is a recession.

    But that appears to be happening with Social Security Disability Insurance, the 1950s-era expansion of the program best known for paying retirement benefits. In 2007, 8.9 million people were on disability. Now that number is 10.7 million, a 20% jump in just five years.

    While non-economic factors account for part of the increase — including a previous backlog of applicants and an aging population — the linkage between the rising disability rolls and the Great Recession is impossible to ignore.
    Recession enriching disability rolls

    Unemployment claims have been trickling down over the past few months, which most agree is good news.

    But in tandem with that decrease, another public benefit has been increasing. Since 2007, some 3.4 million Americans have been added to the list of those receiving Social Security Disability Insurance. SSDI, as it's know, pays out some $1,000 a month and also gives people access to Medicare and Medicaid.

    About 10.6 million Americans now receive SSDI benefits which has raised new fears that the Social Security Trust Fund may go broke as early as 2017. According to two new studies, many of those new claimants ran out of unemployment benefits before they applied for SSDI
    .
    As unemployment benefits claims decline, disability claims rise | PRI.ORG
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  7. #37
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This isn't exactly true, Fiddy. It's WORSE than that. My brother is on SSI. He can keep his benefits if he works a certain amount. If he works ONE DOLLAR over that amount, he receives NOTHING. The SSI plus his part time job allow him to live independently, pay rent, buy food, etc... Without the SSI, he would be unable to do any of those things, would need to go into government subsidized housing and go on welfare. A pro-rated system would be far better for him. It would encourage him to work more, become more independent, etc... But the way the system is set up, this cannot happen.

    The system needs an overhaul. All or nothing doesn't work. It doesn't encourage anyone to get off assistance.
    I wasn't directly involved with my brother's financial situation, and won't be for hopefully some time, so I could entirely be mistaken as to the severity of the situation. I was more or less astonished that here was this young guy who wanted to work (I mean, wanted to work), but had to be that guy walking a tightrope between two skyscrapers. Heaven forbid he makes just a tiny bit more money, because then they would pull out the rug from underneath him and what was already a straight loss of expenses (my family continues to fund a large part of his life) would become completely untenable. He would likely never in his lifetime be a fully-independent person due to: being under guardianship, never be able to fund his own services (let alone medical expenses) at the same time as fund his living expenses. So really the best he could financially do is be a loss financially, but a loss that would be able to feel some sense of independence like any American citizen wants to have/usually gets. It's something I take to heart, and something I could never stress enough: the value of independence and getting as close as one can to being just like a regular citizen of this country. It's not a significant demand, but it is a justified one.

    He would have to choose between being able to fund what limited time he has with staff on one hand, and on the other, being able to live independently from my parents and hold a job doing God's honest work. Again, hopeless pauperism or a shimmer of independence and pride in his own life. That's a pretty stark choice.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 09-28-12 at 01:14 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  8. #38
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Bi-polar depression/anxiety attacks/ADHD/back problems. The latest scams to collect SS Disability. When the medical community finally decides that alcoholism is a disease, we're screwed.

    I don't mind a hand up -- in fact, I think we should probably do even more for people who are genuinely disabled. But a hand out? God, I wish we didn't do that as often as I think we do.
    And who makes that decision you? If you knew what you were talking about you would not say such things. One of the few things GW Bush did was to tighten the qualifications for getting SSI. The problem is that under his sons tuteldge the system has gone completely anal. My son has Aspergers and gets SSI because we had documents from the state and several therapists who said because of his condition he could not work. It still took almost a year to get approved. I know many families whose child(including adult children) is much more significantly disabled than mine and have similar paperwork but had to go to court and spend thousands of dollars to get something that if the clerk had bothered to read the documents would not have wasted tax payers nor parents dollars.

    Havin actual experience with the system those people who complain about the cost should be complaining about the system that Bush II devised to adminster it. thats were the waste, the inefficiency the hardship is.

    If you are the guardian of a person with SSI you are generally audited once a year by the Social Security Office. If they even smell something funny, you are subjected to a full audit which is not alot of fun. In either case you have to account for every dollar and prove that it has gone to the person on SSI. If not you are SOL without a paddle. So far this year where I live 6 parents have been sent to PRISON for not being able to prove where the money went or having used it themselves which is a federal offense.

    Are there scumbags out there sure, but most people just like to pick on something and someone they know little about and bitch.

    In another site people were actually calling people like my son leaches on society and "worthy of death". thats why I am here.

    Please get your (everyone) facts straight before you attack the kids. Its the system thats screwed not the kids. If we stuck to the Dole/Bush I proposition there would be alot less waste.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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  9. #39
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    I voted for everything except "all the poor no matter what the circumstance."

    If options #2 and #6 had left out the parts about "too tired to work" and "too depressed" I probably wouldn't have voted for them. I think depression and insomnia are serious problems. People who have these problems should be given help, provided they make efforts to combat/resolve their conditions.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  10. #40
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    And who makes that decision you? If you knew what you were talking about you would not say such things. One of the few things GW Bush did was to tighten the qualifications for getting SSI. The problem is that under his sons tuteldge the system has gone completely anal. My son has Aspergers and gets SSI because we had documents from the state and several therapists who said because of his condition he could not work. It still took almost a year to get approved. I know many families whose child(including adult children) is much more significantly disabled than mine and have similar paperwork but had to go to court and spend thousands of dollars to get something that if the clerk had bothered to read the documents would not have wasted tax payers nor parents dollars.

    Havin actual experience with the system those people who complain about the cost should be complaining about the system that Bush II devised to adminster it. thats were the waste, the inefficiency the hardship is.

    If you are the guardian of a person with SSI you are generally audited once a year by the Social Security Office. If they even smell something funny, you are subjected to a full audit which is not alot of fun. In either case you have to account for every dollar and prove that it has gone to the person on SSI. If not you are SOL without a paddle. So far this year where I live 6 parents have been sent to PRISON for not being able to prove where the money went or having used it themselves which is a federal offense.

    Are there scumbags out there sure, but most people just like to pick on something and someone they know little about and bitch.

    In another site people were actually calling people like my son leaches on society and "worthy of death". thats why I am here.

    Please get your (everyone) facts straight before you attack the kids. Its the system thats screwed not the kids. If we stuck to the Dole/Bush I proposition there would be alot less waste.
    Thoughtful post...I agree with most of what you've said. If you re-read my post, you'll see I was referring to Social Security Disability -- and had strictly adults in mind when I wrote it. Tom's a taxi driver. The stories he tells about his "disabled" clients would curl your hair.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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