View Poll Results: Where do you draw the line? Who would you help? You can choose more than one

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • Physically or Mentally Handicapped

    53 85.48%
  • Cant seem to keep a job. Too tired to get up

    6 9.68%
  • Developmentally Handicapped

    48 77.42%
  • Poor who truely need help

    43 69.35%
  • All the poor no matter what the circumstance

    19 30.65%
  • Too obese or depressed to work

    7 11.29%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Helping the Needy and the Poor

  1. #141
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    In reality, they don't have a leg to stand on regardless. They advocate that people should be forced to give via taxation, but fail to uphold the rights of people to keep what they have earned by their own labor, so they support legalized theft, as long as that theft is buying the things that they themselves deem worthy.
    I agree. It doesn't really matter if they give more than anyone else or less than anyone else because what they support is where the problem actually lies and not really if they give or not. Still, I think its worth noting that many of these people that support such things do not give their money or their time to anyone that might need it.

  2. #142
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I agree. It doesn't really matter if they give more than anyone else or less than anyone else because what they support is where the problem actually lies and not really if they give or not. Still, I think its worth noting that many of these people that support such things do not give their money or their time to anyone that might need it.
    No doubt, it's worth noting, as it seems those who are screaming the loudest that they need more taxes, are the ones who give less of their own money. It's easy to tell everyone else to give, but not so easy to put your money where your mouth is.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...that's not really "the top". The point was more to demonstrate that the systems' ability to curb fraud was negligable, and that the cost of fraud was indeed significant.

    The Recession ended in June of 2009; but the numbers of on SNAP are up 46% since Obama took office. You're going to have to color me pretty skeptical that there hasn't been a push to put as many people as possible in the position of receiving government benefit, regardless of whether or not they absolutely needed it.

    System wide, many people are indeed trapped against the welfare cliffs that have been described. Why would you work harder or longer if doing so would mean a reduction in income?
    The Recession ended for business. For those on main street the recession is still alive and kickin'. Wages across the board are being reduced while companies are making record profits, and holding onto them. You have business' asking workers to work more hours and perform harder work for the same pay, which is only beneficial to the business'.

    Point being, the reason you have so many on benefit programs is because business simply refuse to hire people when they found out they can ask one person to do the work of two or three, and those people will do it gladly for fear of losing the job that they do have.
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    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

  4. #144
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    The Recession ended for business. For those on main street the recession is still alive and kickin'. Wages across the board are being reduced while companies are making record profits, and holding onto them. You have business' asking workers to work more hours and perform harder work for the same pay, which is only beneficial to the business'.

    Point being, the reason you have so many on benefit programs is because business simply refuse to hire people when they found out they can ask one person to do the work of two or three, and those people will do it gladly for fear of losing the job that they do have.
    My uncle (who is a small business owner) will be astonished to hear it. He's just been keeping the thing above water. And a majority of small business owners say that they would not open their businesses today, and would be unable to succeed if they tried - they might be surprised to hear this as well. The vast majority of businesses live on main street, after all, not wall street.

    We have been adding jobs (the President and his supporters so eagerly rush to point out) for some time now. Yet the number of those on assistance keeps increasing as well.....

  5. #145
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    *off topic* Love your byline, CPWILL. *back to topic*
    Grace has been defined as the outward expression of the inward harmony of the soul.

  6. #146
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    As a Christian, I am personally commanded to help all those who are in need, in so far as I am able, and I take joy in being able to do this. I believe the church, and all charitable individuals generally, ought to be on the forefront of fighting poverty and helping the poor and disenfranchised.

    However, I don't believe the federal government should in any way be involved in 'helping' the poor. The purpose of the government is to uphold and defend individual rights, not to hand out entitlements or put itself in charge of charity. Free market capitalism with a minute government is the best kind of society we can have, but it absolutely requires high moral character and a charitable spirit among all the people in order to work.

    I do believe that if we got rid of the income tax and corporate tax, we would see a massive increase in charitable giving from all layers of society, to the point where we could gradually phase out entitlement programs; leaving charity to churches and individuals where it belongs.

  7. #147
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate View Post
    As a Christian, I am personally commanded to help all those who are in need, in so far as I am able, and I take joy in being able to do this. I believe the church, and all charitable individuals generally, ought to be on the forefront of fighting poverty and helping the poor and disenfranchised.

    However, I don't believe the federal government should in any way be involved in 'helping' the poor. The purpose of the government is to uphold and defend individual rights, not to hand out entitlements or put itself in charge of charity. Free market capitalism with a minute government is the best kind of society we can have, but it absolutely requires high moral character and a charitable spirit among all the people in order to work.

    I do believe that if we got rid of the income tax and corporate tax, we would see a massive increase in charitable giving from all layers of society, to the point where we could gradually phase out entitlement programs; leaving charity to churches and individuals where it belongs.
    It really behooves the excessively wealthy to charitably donate. Once you get to the point where you have so much money you can't even figure out a way to spend it, it becomes naturally motivating to give it back, and not in a pointless way, but in a way that will be meaningful and empower others. That's why you don't see big charities just spraying cash on the streets in poor areas. That's pointless, in fact it might even be harmful, ultimately.

    Warren Buffett has promised to charitably donate a crazy high percentage of his personal wealth. That's fantastic. That does not mean we should expect the exact same of all rich people and threaten them with confiscation. Let charity be a thoughtful, purposeful, voluntary thing. That's the spirit of giving, and givers will do a way better job giving to meaningful causes than a government bureaucracy that is constantly wanting to please voters and cronies and pay people just to shut them up and let them suffer more quietly.

    It's in the best interest of the fabulously rich to be philanthropic. Few of them want to be hated and envied. They stand to gain very little by hoarding it all and hiding from the masses, so they will be philanthropic. But a government which promises to be philanthropic on their behalves will cause them to seize up and be less inclined to give in the first place, because they're too busy trying to hang on to what's being threatened.

  8. #148
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Seems to me:

    1: You should help whoever you feel is in need of your help
    2: Let others make the same decision for themselves.

    In other words: Dont presume to force your morality on me.

  9. #149
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    I voted for all of them, because in some cases, those external signs are really a sign of something that does require help or treatment. I wouldn't write any of those reasons off at face value.

  10. #150
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by GmH View Post
    A friend of mine has an older son 40 something to be exact. He is on SSI. He is too drepressed to deal with a job or to deal with life in general. He is not too depressed to buy a car. He is not too depressed to buy a boat. He is not too depressed too move from Idaho to South Carolina....all by his little 0l' self. He is not too depressed to go fishing all day and water sking all summer. His 73 old mother works to help support him.... This are the ones that drive Republicans crazy.

    I will gladly, gladly, gladly give you a helping hand when you are truely needy, help you get on your feet, make sure you are clothed and do not go hungry. I draw the line at helping you when you sit on your butt all day and fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WE DO NOT want the needy thrown off welfare, we want the bums like the one above thrown off welfare



    As a Chaosian, I oppose any actions by government that would interfere with culling the herd of the useless and stupid.

    They can get a job, or convince their family or friends or church to support them, or otherwise fend for themselves, or steal and get shot dead by an outraged homeowner, that's their problem... and that's Chaos!!

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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