View Poll Results: Where do you draw the line? Who would you help? You can choose more than one

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • Physically or Mentally Handicapped

    53 85.48%
  • Cant seem to keep a job. Too tired to get up

    6 9.68%
  • Developmentally Handicapped

    48 77.42%
  • Poor who truely need help

    43 69.35%
  • All the poor no matter what the circumstance

    19 30.65%
  • Too obese or depressed to work

    7 11.29%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Helping the Needy and the Poor

  1. #91
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It equates, because as society changes, and more individuals become the recipient of taxpayer funds, and increased demand is put on the taxpayer, who also has finite resources at his disposal, resources become strained with a decreasing supply.
    Ok. But that does not equate to people wanting to take your property. It equates to possibly higher taxes on part of the society.


  2. #92
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Ok. But that does not equate to people wanting to take your property. It equates to possibly higher taxes on part of the society.
    Yes, it does equate to people wanting to take my property. HIgher taxes is taking of my property.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  3. #93
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Yes, it does equate to people wanting to take my property. HIgher taxes is taking of my property.
    You ignore democratic consent. Taxation are not decrees imposed by a faceless government. Instead they are imposed by a democratic elected government that are dues we pay in exchange for basic membership in a society and access to services they offer. Saying that of course elected govs can spend our tax dollars unwisely and you have every right to speak out against that.
    Also a more basic argument can be made because the strict definitional answer to the question is, no, becuase, taxes are not by definition theft', because taxes are not illegal and the definition of theft includes illegality.
    Legislatures are legal and legislatures have the power to levy taxes


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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You ignore democratic consent. Taxation are not decrees imposed by a faceless government. Instead they are imposed by a democratic elected government that are dues we pay in exchange for basic membership in a society and access to services they offer. Saying that of course elected govs can spend our tax dollars unwisely and you have every right to speak out against that.
    Also a more basic argument can be made because the strict definitional answer to the question is, no, becuase, taxes are not by definition theft', because taxes are not illegal and the definition of theft includes illegality.
    Legislatures are legal and legislatures have the power to levy taxes
    And you ignore the fact that taxation is theft of property, as it most definitely is. Just because society decides that taxes may be taken from some, for redistribution based on need, it does not change the fact that it is taking the property of one person, for the benefit of another, and theft is wrong, no matter how you want to justify it.

    Turn on your imagination for just a minute to think about something.

    Let's say that we have 100 individuals, and five of them are needy, so that society of 100 individuals decides that the 95 of them who are managing to eek out a living, should be required to pay for the other 5 to live comfortably. That's not too much of an issue in that circumstance.

    Now, pretend it is 10 years later, and there has been a recession, in which 20 percent of those individuals have lost their jobs. Society still believes that those who are making an adequate living should provide for the 20 percent who have fallen on hard times. That's still acceptable to most of the people in that society.

    Now, pretend it is another 10 years down the road, and the recession has continued, and 50 percent of that society is not working, either because they can't find another job, or have found that living off the goodwill of others is pretty damn appealing. Those who are paying the bills are seeing their own disposable income shrinking, through no fault of their own, but the society demands that they keep supporting the society anyway.

    This is theft, no matter how you want to slice it and dice it, regardless of what the reasons are, and regardless of who demands it.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  5. #95
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    And you ignore the fact that taxation is theft of property, as it most definitely is.
    No its simply not theft. Theft is the act of taking something unlawfully. The law states that the legislature has the right to implement taxes..

    Just because society decides that taxes may be taken from some, for redistribution based on need, it does not change the fact that it is taking the property of one person, for the benefit of another, and theft is wrong, no matter how you want to justify it.
    Its not theft!


    Turn on your imagination for just a minute to think about something.
    It is on.


    Let's say that we have 100 individuals, and five of them are needy, so that society of 100 individuals decides that the 95 of them who are managing to eek out a living, should be required to pay for the other 5 to live comfortably. That's not too much of an issue in that circumstance.
    Live "comfortably"? You mean giving them food stamps and some form of basic medical care? That sounds "real comfortable". Its called living in a civilized society.

    Now, pretend it is 10 years later, and there has been a recession, in which 20 percent of those individuals have lost their jobs. Society still believes that those who are making an adequate living should provide for the 20 percent who have fallen on hard times. That's still acceptable to most of the people in that society.

    Now, pretend it is another 10 years down the road, and the recession has continued, and 50 percent of that society is not working, either because they can't find another job, or have found that living off the goodwill of others is pretty damn appealing. Those who are paying the bills are seeing their own disposable income shrinking, through no fault of their own, but the society demands that they keep supporting the society anyway.

    This is theft, no matter how you want to slice it and dice it, regardless of what the reasons are, and regardless of who demands it.
    No its not. Its simply not theft because its not unlawful.


  6. #96
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think we should support the poor no matter what. (Yes even the "lazy" ones who choose not to get a job)
    So how much do you give to lazy poor people?

  7. #97
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So how much do you give to lazy poor people?
    Probably not very much since i am a college student.


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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No its simply not theft. Theft is the act of taking something unlawfully. The law states that the legislature has the right to implement taxes..
    The word theft is not soley dependent on legally. Look up the word sometime and you will see it proper to use it in the way she is.

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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Live "comfortably"? You mean giving them food stamps and some form of basic medical care? That sounds "real comfortable". Its called living in a civilized society.
    Actually the forced taking of property and the giving it to another is the exact opposite of civilized. If you want civilized you have to stop inflicting violence on people to help others.

  10. #100
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    Re: Helping the Needy and the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The word theft is not soley dependent on legally. Look up the word sometime and you will see it proper to use it in the way she is.
    Uhh "theft": The action or crime of stealing
    illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.
    The act of stealing property
    The unlawful taking of another's property with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of its use or possession.
    Unlawful taking of money, securities, or other property to the deprivation of the insured; includes burglary, robbery. See also Burglary; Robbery.
    The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same

    "Steal": Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it


    So tell me are you just gonna redefine a word?


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