View Poll Results: Is the US Military budget morally reasonable and sane?

Voters
23. You may not vote on this poll
  • The budget is reasonable.

    8 34.78%
  • The budget is unreasonable.

    8 34.78%
  • The military budget is insane.

    7 30.43%
  • The military budget is immoral and insane.

    8 34.78%
  • War is good business and that is big military.

    1 4.35%
  • Imperialism and Empire are expensive, military required.

    3 13.04%
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Thread: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    It all depends on your values. If killing millions to access their resources on your terms is morally ok with you, then it is worth it. If breaking the nation by imperial over reach disturbs you then it is not worth it. Only one politician or pundit has ever dared to say that empire is breaking us and that is Ron Paul. No, I won't vote for him. I admire his honesty but unfortunately he advocates dog eat dog economics as well. He is that rarity of rarities, a true believer.

    If anyone is interested in studying up on our empire I suggest Chalmers Johnson's trilogy on the subject. It is not only detailed but an easy read. For those who don't value the facts I can think of many bumper stickers that will do the job.

    In my opinion few Americans care about the morality involved. Most on the right will tell you that our government lies and is not to be trusted (true). They will tell you the government can't do anything right (true sometimes). The one time they will tell you that you are a traitor for not believing the government is when it is killing foreigners. Go figure.

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Americans have great culture, nice houses, green meadows and beautiful people. Too bad they are not preoccupied with that instead of being preoccupied with war.
    I'm afraid you have it backwards. Most Americans are preoccupied with their private lives and don't look behind the corporate news media which never mentions the horrors we inflict on other peoples. Beautiful people? Some of us are and some of us are very ugly and vicious, just like people everywhere. The difference here is that they are like mushrooms. They are kept in the dark and fed lost of horse byproduct.

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    I think that the USA'a wars have been about Corporate control of assets. Iraq-OIL. Don't say democracy because Maliki did not get elected and is a dictatorial regime. Libya-OIL. The USA supported this insurrection with weapons and money and assets on the ground. Latin America-Produce. Our Corporations influence the change of allegedly Democratic gov'ts as a matter of labor/management policy not freedom and democracy. Panama-Cocaine. We invaded and replaced Noreiga because of cocaine trafficing, but he was our ally and CIA asset doing our business, like Operation Phoenix in Southeast Asia. Vietnam-Military spending. This was a nice profitable war for the sellers of military equipment, ammo, etc. Maybe the OIL deposits in the South China sea. Syria-OIL and pipeline routes and get Russia out of Syria's great port. This appears to be another insurrection that we have had a hand and money in instigating. It's certainly not about freedom and democracy. Is that what we put in Iraq? The policies and agendas of the USA have been the major cause of Global Warming and we are the Nation weaseling out of responsibility because it would be a Corporate liability. Currently we influence the world with a currency that is supported by huge, unmanageable debt and is getting worse. We have created a banking system that is rife with fraud. It's all about big business, the American Way and it is gonna bite us.

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogfussle View Post
    I'm afraid you have it backwards. Most Americans are preoccupied with their private lives and don't look behind the corporate news media which never mentions the horrors we inflict on other peoples. Beautiful people? Some of us are and some of us are very ugly and vicious, just like people everywhere. The difference here is that they are like mushrooms. They are kept in the dark and fed lost of horse byproduct.
    I'm glad I'm wrong on that one.

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    We would not have invaded Iraq if Saddam had accepted the deal he was offered which was the same deal the Saudis took. His biggest sin was to sell oil for Euros instead of dollars. In the words of our lying government, he "destabilized" the oil markets. The petrodollar was a key ingredient in making the dollar the reserve currency of the world. For this we killed over a million Iraqis.

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I'm glad that power vacuum isn't being filled by the Chinese or the Russians.
    This is the essence of the most salient argument for American military superiority. If not us, then who? American "imperialism" might be bad, but envision a Soviet or ChiCom imperialism...

    Europeans. They spend nothing on a military, and get all the benefits of peace and stability on America's dime. Personally, I think we should charge for our services.
    ...and get to indulge in the fantasy that their hands are clean. As does anyone else who tut-tut's the U.S. for its military.

    A reasonable person can disagree with various policies, expenditures, etc. But to question the U.S.A.'s status as world hegemon is foolishness, unless you are a person with an eye for gaining that power themselves.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    i can't vote in the poll because of the wording, but i will say that i think our best strategy going forward would be to maintain a reasonable military for a country our size, honor and even increase our commitments to veterans, concentrate on cybersecurity, and to vastly reduce our presence on the world stage. this could be accomplished while significantly cutting the military budget.

    put simply, we spend more than everyone else combined, and we are providing a police service for the world while not getting paid to do it. i don't think that should be our role or our national mission. eventually, we're going to have to take care of some things at home, and i think that time should be now.

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Are we the World's most Imperialistic Nation?
    Currently, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Don't people realize what is happening?
    For the most part they’re tuned out. An apathetic people is a necessity to the establishment of a fascist state. People want their daily lives to go along uninterrupted from its daily monotony and so long as that is true, damn anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Is this news in the Major Media?
    Not really. There are news stories, they don’t really spend a lot of time talking about it or going over policy or showing how long and how much money we’ve spent, etc. The media is not looking to educate people; just give enough info so that the person doesn’t feel compelled to go look up more information on their own. That’s the line our current media walks.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Are we over-militarized?
    Splugh! Yes we are over militarized, we spend way too much money on our military and we use it way too often (re always)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Who gets the profit from all this?
    Government’s corporate friends and the new aristocracy. The same group of folk and businesses which always profit from government as government uses its force to ensure that these same entities/people win time and time again.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Why isn't this a campaign issue?

    Both sides are doing it and neither side wants to stop. This is not something they want brought to the People’s attention, they do not want people thinking about it. They want their finger pointing issues like abortion and gay marriage (were nothing will change), but not something to make people think. Thinking people are bad to the status quo.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Currently, yes.



    For the most part they’re tuned out. An apathetic people is a necessity to the establishment of a fascist state. People want their daily lives to go along uninterrupted from its daily monotony and so long as that is true, damn anything else.



    Not really. There are news stories, they don’t really spend a lot of time talking about it or going over policy or showing how long and how much money we’ve spent, etc. The media is not looking to educate people; just give enough info so that the person doesn’t feel compelled to go look up more information on their own. That’s the line our current media walks.



    Splugh! Yes we are over militarized, we spend way too much money on our military and we use it way too often (re always)



    Government’s corporate friends and the new aristocracy. The same group of folk and businesses which always profit from government as government uses its force to ensure that these same entities/people win time and time again.




    Both sides are doing it and neither side wants to stop. This is not something they want brought to the People’s attention, they do not want people thinking about it. They want their finger pointing issues like abortion and gay marriage (were nothing will change), but not something to make people think. Thinking people are bad to the status quo.


    The worst part of all of this is that we have become a Nation dependent upon the labor created by the Military/Industrial/Energy/Corporate complex. Even the CIA is chartered to assist USA CORPORATIONS overseas, not Mr. and Mrs. John Doe overseas. Why is that? Were Corporations powerful enough to get their own militant arm operating outside the USA on the taxpayers dollar? It would appear so. That might go a long way in explaining why Nations with OIL are in our crosshairs. Wars run on ENERGY. As long as OIL is traded in USDollars, then there is a demand for dollars worldwide and these dollars are never repatriated. We are 5% of the World's population and have created 25-30 percent of the World's pollution. That puts the onus on us for the lion's share of Global Warming responsibility. As regards the USDollar, the Federal Reserve Dollar, backed by "full faith and credit" and the fact that it has no real backing, except our strong military. It's money because the guys with the big sticks say it is! That's reality!

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    Re: Is the price of Imperialism worth it?

    Agree to disagree then. I am not a big fan, but I do think if you're going to admire an American President, you could certainly do worse than President Eisenhower.

    Like I said, I think he was well-meaning, but he could have handled a lot of things better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    He may have ended a nuclear war.

    And as a Brit stopped us from making a terrible mistake, we went into the Suez to recover our investments as a nation under the false pretense of peacekeeping.

    Eisenhower did the right thing.



    Eisenhower threatened Nuclear War against China and the threats worked.

    Eisenhower showed great judgement in not getting involved in a ground war with the Chinese in North Korea or Chinese Soil.

    The continuation of North Korea is unfortunate but it was alot better than the alternative.



    Macarthur had his day during WW2.

    Macarthur overeached during Korea and his dismissal by Truman was one of the most important in the United States history in maintaining civilian control over the military.



    At the end of the day the point stands.

    The space race provided no tactical advantage for either party.

    We can get into an argument over how the moon landings or Sputnik effected the worlds view of the respective powers but at the end of the day that doesn't mean jack within the confines of who would have won a military conflict.

    Nations who aligned themselves with either side did not do so on the basis of who had the fanciest space toys.

    They did so in who offered them the most, whether that be financial, military or other aid.



    Again... unfortunate.

    But intervening may have meant an armed conflict between the USSR and the USA and it's allies.

    Not an option.

    Once again Eisenhower saw the bigger picture.

    He was a great president.

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