View Poll Results: Why are today's poor more miserable?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Because they don't have all their needs met.

    8 16.67%
  • Because advertising constantly reminds them of what they can't afford.

    16 33.33%
  • Because the rich are too rich!!

    7 14.58%
  • Because they (the poor) no longer farm.

    5 10.42%
  • Because they are no longer needed for manufacturing.

    4 8.33%
  • Because they're packed into cities.

    8 16.67%
  • Because welfare breeds dependence and thus resentment.

    20 41.67%
  • N/A - the poor have always been pretty equally miserable.

    12 25.00%
  • Other (explain)

    15 31.25%
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Thread: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

  1. #51
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    So feeling "left out", in your opinion, somehow makes their lives worse? Left out of what, exactly? They have every opportunity given to them so they can advance, which is something they absolutely did not have a hundred+ years ago.

    Because workforce competition is a new thing. Ever heard of the Irish? Same ****, different century.
    I think youre missing my point.

    The poor a hundred years ago came from generations of hopeless poverty.

    OUR poor were coming up nicely from the 50s to the eighties, more than a generation saw real progress out of poverty.

    Then the eighties came with trickle down economics and the poors upward limb came to a stop.

    So the once hopeful for a better life now see less ability to improve their lot than their parents and grandparents because there is less chance to improve their lot. (And this isn't reserved to the poor).

    So theyre not more miserable than the poor of a hundred years ago but more hope8less than the poor of thirty years ago.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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  2. #52
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Everyone was more miserable 100 years ago. Actually, I have no idea if that's true. Everyone was poorer 100 years ago. Can't really compare overall happiness. Society and technology have marched on, changing the way we live. The standard of living has increased. The poor of today are just as far below today's standard as the poor a century ago were below that era's standard. Being poor didn't suddenly stop sucking when we invented air conditioning. The premise of this thread is silly. The point is the gap, the distance from the standard of living, not how technology has altered where that standard is.

    Of course, the poorest of today truly aren't much better off than the poorest of a century ago. The plight of a homeless person on the street corner (many of whom have some kind of mental illness) is exactly what it was a century ago.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Everyone was more miserable 100 years ago. Actually, I have no idea if that's true. Everyone was poorer 100 years ago. Can't really compare overall happiness. Society and technology have marched on, changing the way we live. The standard of living has increased. The poor of today are just as far below today's standard as the poor a century ago were below that era's standard. Being poor didn't suddenly stop sucking when we invented air conditioning. The premise of this thread is silly. The point is the gap, the distance from the standard of living, not how technology has altered where that standard is.

    Of course, the poorest of today truly aren't much better off than the poorest of a century ago. The plight of a homeless person on the street corner (many of whom have some kind of mental illness) is exactly what it was a century ago.
    You make good points, and one which I was alluding to in my post. What is "happy"? How is it measured?

    I'm thinking it's more of a mindset. Expectations. I could see where people in 1912 didn't expect more, so while they knew life sucked, they dealt with it as best they could. Fast forward to 2012, and people are bombarded and told how much life sucks on a daily basis, hence they dwell on it.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I think youre missing my point.

    The poor a hundred years ago came from generations of hopeless poverty.
    If you don't want to talk about them, why is the thread title "Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?" The poor a hundred years ago were still US Citizen living in the US, just as many of todays poor are from countries like Mexico. The only thing that changed in that aspect is where the immigrants are coming from.


    OUR poor were coming up nicely from the 50s to the eighties, more than a generation saw real progress out of poverty.

    Then the eighties came with trickle down economics and the poors upward limb came to a stop.

    So the once hopeful for a better life now see less ability to improve their lot than their parents and grandparents because there is less chance to improve their lot. (And this isn't reserved to the poor).

    So theyre not more miserable than the poor of a hundred years ago but more hope8less than the poor of thirty years ago.
    And still, the poor today have far more opportunities available to them than they had even 30 years ago. In the 80's, you think you'd ever be able to get a college grant just for walking into a school's financial aid office? Or go to an unemployment office that actually had real jobs set up just for the indigent who want to work? People today have it so good, and they don't even realize it. In 2007, I was homeless in California, which is a pretty crappy place to be homeless. I took the available opportunities that were given to me, pulled myself up from the gutter, and started doing something with my life. Without outside help, that wouldn't have been possible for me, and that outside help didn't exist in the 80's, and damn sure didn't exist in the 50's.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You make good points, and one which I was alluding to in my post. What is "happy"? How is it measured?

    I'm thinking it's more of a mindset. Expectations. I could see where people in 1912 didn't expect more, so while they knew life sucked, they dealt with it as best they could. Fast forward to 2012, and people are bombarded and told how much life sucks on a daily basis, hence they dwell on it.
    I'm confused, are you saying that people have higher or lower expectations about the quality of life? And either way, how about our solution not be about changing expectations, but in making life not suck? Like by taking care of people when they're sick or injured, for example. Or making sure that they have a roof over their heads?
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm confused, are you saying that people have higher or lower expectations about the quality of life? And either way, how about our solution not be about changing expectations, but in making life not suck? Like by taking care of people when they're sick or injured, for example. Or making sure that they have a roof over their heads?
    You are indeed confused. Let me see if I can help. The poor of yore understood that it was up to them to improve their lives. Many, if not most of today's poor are so because of a combination of questionable upbringing and/or intellect which spawns form one generation to the next. The only thing you can try to do is level the playing field (universal education). Those who take advantage of opportunity are to be congratulated, but no amount of self-righteous pontification nor entitlements is likely to make a significant dent on factors that are so deeply ingrained. They never have.

    Heresy to some, I'm sure.

  7. #57
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    You are indeed confused. Let me see if I can help. The poor of yore understood that it was up to them to improve their lives. Many, if not most of today's poor are so because of a combination of questionable upbringing and/or intellect which spawns form one generation to the next. The only thing you can try to do is level the playing field (universal education). Those who take advantage of opportunity are to be congratulated, but no amount of self-righteous pontification nor entitlements is likely to make a significant dent on factors that are so deeply ingrained. They never have.

    Heresy to some, I'm sure.
    Not so much heresy as grossly inaccurate. The lazy and stupid people you're talking about are a tiny portion of the poor. Most are hardworking, just like everybody else. If there is a problem of attitude, it's because all their hard work isn't paying off.
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    If you don't want to talk about them, why is the thread title "Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?" The poor a hundred years ago were still US Citizen living in the US, just as many of todays poor are from countries like Mexico. The only thing that changed in that aspect is where the immigrants are coming from.




    And still, the poor today have far more opportunities available to them than they had even 30 years ago. In the 80's, you think you'd ever be able to get a college grant just for walking into a school's financial aid office? Or go to an unemployment office that actually had real jobs set up just for the indigent who want to work? People today have it so good, and they don't even realize it. In 2007, I was homeless in California, which is a pretty crappy place to be homeless. I took the available opportunities that were given to me, pulled myself up from the gutter, and started doing something with my life. Without outside help, that wouldn't have been possible for me, and that outside help didn't exist in the 80's, and damn sure didn't exist in the 50's.
    You must be young. Financial aid was available to students in the eighties. As was unemployment insurance.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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  9. #59
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm confused, are you saying that people have higher or lower expectations about the quality of life? And either way, how about our solution not be about changing expectations, but in making life not suck? Like by taking care of people when they're sick or injured, for example. Or making sure that they have a roof over their heads?
    Higher to the point of being unrealistic. Not everybody can fly off to the south of France for a film festival, ya know.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Not so much heresy as grossly inaccurate. The lazy and stupid people you're talking about are a tiny portion of the poor. Most are hardworking, just like everybody else. If there is a problem of attitude, it's because all their hard work isn't paying off.
    Don't take it personally. I don't know if you are hard-working or lazy.

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