View Poll Results: Why are today's poor more miserable?

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  • Because they don't have all their needs met.

    8 16.67%
  • Because advertising constantly reminds them of what they can't afford.

    16 33.33%
  • Because the rich are too rich!!

    7 14.58%
  • Because they (the poor) no longer farm.

    5 10.42%
  • Because they are no longer needed for manufacturing.

    4 8.33%
  • Because they're packed into cities.

    8 16.67%
  • Because welfare breeds dependence and thus resentment.

    20 41.67%
  • N/A - the poor have always been pretty equally miserable.

    12 25.00%
  • Other (explain)

    15 31.25%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

  1. #21
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    Hatuey's Avatar
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The OP question/poll is insufficiently intellectual. Your posit of intellectual dishonesty is probably intellectually dishonest.
    Who you callin' posit? You scoundrel.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #22
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The latter is more important, but they go hand in hand. If you can eliminate their poverty (e.g. provide them with enough food, education, health care, and shelter) then it will typically lead to feeling more empowered, fulfilled, and independent.
    that is unfortunately incorrect. your self worth, empowerment, and fulfillment come not from what you receive, but what you achieve.

  3. #23
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is unfortunately incorrect. your self worth, empowerment, and fulfillment come not from what you receive, but what you achieve.
    Higher levels of self worth, empowerment, fulfillment and achievement can be achieved through receiving. You can bet there are millions of middle class people who wouldn't have the level of self worth, empowerment and fulfillment if it weren't for the social programs available to them and their parents. How many single mothers would have made anything of themselves before these programs and under a system like the one advocated by you? How many immigrants would have run successful businesses if it weren't for government help?

    Again, one can argue all they want that some people take advantage of welfare etc. But the collective progress made in the last 100 years is all the proof needed to show that they serve an extremely beneficial purpose. You don't even have to go into time. Just compare the US poor to the poor in any other country that doesn't really give two ****s about its poor. Ours have the ability the move up BECAUSE of what is given to them. Countries that don't? Well Bangladesh is pretty ****ty.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #24
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is unfortunately incorrect. your self worth, empowerment, and fulfillment come not from what you receive, but what you achieve.
    Hmm . . . interesting.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  5. #25
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Higher levels of self worth, empowerment, fulfillment and achievement can be achieved through receiving.
    That is incorrect. self-esteem, empowerment, fulfillment, a sense of achievement, they all come from achievement.

    You can bet there are millions of middle class people who wouldn't have the level of self worth, empowerment and fulfillment if it weren't for the social programs available to them and their parents. How many single mothers would have made anything of themselves before these programs and under a system like the one advocated by you? How many immigrants would have run successful businesses if it weren't for government help?
    well the obvious answer is "all of them", considering that we are not judging off of a raw, but relative standard. but here you are arguing a misnomer, and trying to claim that later achievement = earlier receipt.

    Again, one can argue all they want that some people take advantage of welfare etc.
    well it's not just that - it's that we use welfare to trap them in poverty and low productivity, thereby ensuring that they will never achieve enough to reach self-fulfillment, empowerment, etc.

    But the collective progress made in the last 100 years is all the proof needed to show that they serve an extremely beneficial purpose.
    yeah. if there is one thing that leaps to mind about the experience with our social welfare state over the past few decades, it's "success"

    success at destroying stable family formation
    success at creating a permanent underclass
    success at trapping people to the measure of their birth
    success at taking the most dynamic, charitable, creative, industrial people to roam the earth and turning them into permanent dependents, trapped in self-destructive decisions with only resentment for those who aid them.

    yeeahaw, let's have some more of that
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-21-12 at 02:29 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. self-esteem, empowerment, fulfillment, a sense of achievement, they all come from achievement.
    And I disagree with your opinion.

    well the obvious answer is "all of them", considering that we are not judging off of a raw, but relative standard. but here you are arguing a misnomer, and trying to claim that later achievement = earlier receipt.

    well it's not just that - it's that we use welfare to trap them in poverty and low productivity, thereby ensuring that they will never achieve enough to reach self-fulfillment, empowerment, etc.

    yeah. if there is one thing that leaps to mind about the experience with our social welfare state over the past few decades, it's "success"

    success at destroying stable family formation
    success at creating a permanent underclass
    success at trapping people to the measure of their birth
    success at taking the most dynamic, charitable, creative, industrial people to roam the earth and turning them into permanent dependents, trapped in self-destructive decisions with only resentment for those who aid them.

    yeeahaw, let's have some more of that
    What nonsense. There is more social mobility today than ever in the history of mankind. People aren't trapped in welfare systems. They're made mobile by them.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #27
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There is more social mobility today than ever in the history of mankind.
    Hey now.



    .

  8. #28
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hey now.
    .
    Think I'm wrong? Compare any modern Western country to the serfdoms where you live. Born into poverty, die in poverty 9 times out of 10. Where is the social mobility? Where can people gain free educations and move up? Even if they get an education half of them won't do much with it because the social infrastructure simply isn't there to allow them to succeed. Again, you can argue all you want that some people take advantage of welfare systems but the reality is that far more people have socially (and possibly) benefited from "government handouts" than under any other kind of system.

    Where is the middle class in Africa? Where is the middle class in South America? No government handouts there. Why do the majority of the people in those continents live in abject poverty? After all, no welfare = success and achievement. Yes?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #29
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The OP is flawed. So I didn't select anything.

    I don't, because that would be intellectually dishonest.

    /CATO rhetoric ignored.
    Okay then, have a nice day. Thanks for stopping by. Don't forget your CATO straw man on the way out.

  10. #30
    global liberation

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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Think I'm wrong?
    You posted this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I don't, because that would be intellectually dishonest.

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