View Poll Results: Why are today's poor more miserable?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Because they don't have all their needs met.

    8 16.67%
  • Because advertising constantly reminds them of what they can't afford.

    16 33.33%
  • Because the rich are too rich!!

    7 14.58%
  • Because they (the poor) no longer farm.

    5 10.42%
  • Because they are no longer needed for manufacturing.

    4 8.33%
  • Because they're packed into cities.

    8 16.67%
  • Because welfare breeds dependence and thus resentment.

    20 41.67%
  • N/A - the poor have always been pretty equally miserable.

    12 25.00%
  • Other (explain)

    15 31.25%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

  1. #11
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    In the US? The poor are worse off in 2012 than they were in 1912, or earlier?

    Did they have Medicaid in 1912? Could they walk into an Emergency Room and get guaranteed medical treatment in 1912?

    Did they have Food Stamps, or Section 8 housing in 1912?

    Did their kids get subsidized or free breakfasts and lunch at school in 1912? Did their kids get free vaccinations in 1912?

    I could keep going, but you should get the point by now... I hope.

    In 2012, there is more opportunity for the poor to work, educate and train their way out of poverty. More support from local government, charities as well as state and federal programs.

    I know it isn't the PC thing to say, but some folks are just not capable of... well, of doing much anything. It's sad, but true.

    Currently, the level of poor has increased for many reasons, most of which are not particularly their fault. But, many made bad choices and are paying for those choices now. Be it buying a house they couldn't afford, or not saving money for the lean times, or investing in the market and having all disappear. No one made them buy that house, or spend every cent they made, or put their money in the market, or any other choice they made. As I said, some are there by no fault of their own. They saved as much as they could on their low wage job, and after they lost their job, the money didn't last long.

    To say, however, that they are worse off now than they were in 1912 or earlier, is just not a logical conclusion, and is not supported by the facts.

    Of course, the poll does say miserable, not worse off.

    So if it is the misery index we're talking about, IMO it has to do with self respect more than anything else. In 1912, the poor had to fend for themselves, and if we stipulate that they are more miserable now, it has to be because they are relying on others and have less personal input in their own life status, due to this. Lack of control leads to fear and depression. Give them more control and responsibility and they will have at the very least, a feeling of having more control and less fear. IMHO.

  2. #12
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Hahahaha... WHAT?

    These are the poor a century ago. Dying from diarrhea, no job prospects, discriminated against, resorting to prostitution is not an option but a necessity. How... the hell are the poor today more miserable today than a century ago?
    Maybe they aren't then. But if they're not, it's sure been made to seem like they are. How many times have we been reminded (by liberals) that "the poor are getting poorer"? I'm constantly reading sob story after sob story about the nation's poor. "And then he got sick and lost his job and so he didn't have insurance and had huge doctor bills and oh my goodness it's JUST NOT FAIR!" Of course it's not. Never has been, never will be. It sucks hardcore. But anyway, what are we to assume about the misery-level of the nation's poor with all these constant bleating reminders about the poor getting worse off and worse off, but to presume that people weren't so upset about it all back then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    In the US? The poor are worse off in 2012 than they were in 1912, or earlier?
    (SNIP!)

    Of course, the poll does say miserable, not worse off.
    Thhhank you.

    So if it is the misery index we're talking about, IMO it has to do with self respect more than anything else. In 1912, the poor had to fend for themselves, and if we stipulate that they are more miserable now, it has to be because they are relying on others and have less personal input in their own life status, due to this. Lack of control leads to fear and depression. Give them more control and responsibility and they will have at the very least, a feeling of having more control and less fear. IMHO.
    Well put.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 09-21-12 at 01:37 AM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Maybe they aren't then. But if they're not, it's sure been made to seem like they are. How many times have we been reminded (by liberals) that "the poor are getting poorer"? I'm constantly reading sob story after sob story about the nation's poor. "And then he got sick and lost his job and so he didn't have insurance and had huge doctor bills and oh my goodness it's JUST NOT FAIR!" Of course it's not. Never has been, never will be. It sucks hardcore. But anyway, what are we to assume about the misery-level of the nation's poor with all these constant bleating reminders about the poor getting worse off and worse off, but to presume that people weren't so upset about it all back then?
    Easy on the CATO rhetoric there. I went after the claim that they were more 'miserable'. Not that they were poorer. When the claim is made that the poor are poorer it's made in comparison with poor from somewhere relatively close to this century. Not the 115 years ago parameters or vacuum you seem to claim they are compared in.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #14
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Easy on the CATO rhetoric there. I went after the claim that they were more 'miserable'.
    You could have just selected the corresponding response in the poll.

    When the claim is made that the poor are poorer it's made in comparison with poor from somewhere relatively close to this century. Not the 115 years ago parameters or vacuum you seem to claim they are compared in.
    Compare them from ANY other time then, if you want. Were those who were poor in the 60s more miserable/upset about their situation than the poor are today (let's admit, not EVERYONE was middle class in the 60s)? We can't exactly KNOW, because it's a very general statement and hard to research, but we can make reasonable guesses.

    I think it's hard to imagine there was ever so much complaining and psychological sense of utter, disempowered strife about it the farther back you look, even IF conditions were worse back then. Hell what did Marx say would happen?

  5. #15
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    I voted that their needs aren't being met. It's based on...

    Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

  6. #16
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    You could have just selected the corresponding response in the poll.
    The OP is flawed. So I didn't select anything.

    Compare them from ANY other time then, if you want. Were those who were poor in the 60s more miserable/upset about their situation than the poor are today (let's admit, not EVERYONE was middle class in the 60s)? We can't exactly KNOW, because it's a very general statement and hard to research, but we can make reasonable guesses.
    I don't, because that would be intellectually dishonest.

    I think it's hard to imagine there was ever so much complaining and psychological sense of utter, disempowered strife about it the farther back you look, even IF conditions were worse back then. Hell what did Marx say would happen?
    /CATO rhetoric ignored.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #17
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    I voted that their needs aren't being met. It's based on...

    Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Good answer, but it doesn't (can't) address the temporal aspects of the OP/poll question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I don't, because that would be intellectually dishonest.

    That. Prereq being intellectual.

  8. #18
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That. Prereq being intellectual.
    I can't tell who you're trying to insult the most. This worries me and will be dealt with in the appropriate channels. To the bat cave!
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #19
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Because they 'can' be. Because the handout systems enable them to be.

  10. #20
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    Re: Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I can't tell who you're trying to insult the most.
    The OP question/poll is insufficiently intellectual. Your posit of intellectual dishonesty is probably intellectually dishonest.

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