View Poll Results: Are there any examples of free speech that you believe fall under restrictions?

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  • Screaming fire and guns in a crowded auditorium/theater/church etc

    25 96.15%
  • Not acting on it yet making a film about the joys of children sexuality

    9 34.62%
  • Writing or speaking reasons why one might want to shoot or kill a candidate running for POTUS

    9 34.62%
  • Speaking inflammatory words to a culture where our troops and tax revenues are invested

    3 11.54%
  • Media produced inciting hatred while troops/citizens in that culturein order to incite violence

    5 19.23%
  • Protesting military funerals by taunting the fallen as our pay back for not being perfect

    5 19.23%
  • Making a film or writing a book about that denigrates women as not worthy except for sex services

    1 3.85%
  • Distributing a film in a country where our troops are stationed saying they represent Satan

    2 7.69%
  • Loudly bellowing sexual, political, and religious insults

    4 15.38%
  • Intentionally speaking of unproven deviant sexual inuendo of another to their community

    8 30.77%
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Thread: The First Amendment

  1. #61
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    But, is a crime committed against someone simply because of their race or religion more heinous than a crime committed simply out of greed?
    Yes, because when a victim is chosen at random for nothing other than their race, etc., the community of similarly-situated people is frightened.

    I personally oppose hate crime laws because I think they have a bad effect on justice -- they have unintended consequences. But I certainly acknowledge the evil they are meant to address.

  2. #62
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I'm not the one asserting that membership in a hate group is an element of this kind of crime.

    You can show me what you are relying on, and I'll look, but eco, I'm 100% comfortable that you are incorrect on this point.
    You know the citation you posted? Well, I've read it several times and taken notes. I didn't just google and skim it right now.

    Edit: actually, I read the legislation itself, not that write-up.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-21-12 at 05:18 PM.

  3. #63
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    But, is a crime committed against someone simply because of their race or religion more heinous than a crime committed simply out of greed?
    What matters is the infringement of the rights and liberties of an individual by another. Planning out a murder for greed is the same as planning out a murder for hate or planning out a murder for randomness.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #64
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Yes, because when a victim is chosen at random for nothing other than their race, etc., the community of similarly-situated people is frightened.

    I personally oppose hate crime laws because I think they have a bad effect on justice -- they have unintended consequences. But I certainly acknowledge the evil they are meant to address.
    Hate crime laws have a certain burden of proof, however. In order to be labelled a hate crime, the crime must be proved to be motivated by someones gender, race, religion, etc.

  5. #65
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I'm providing the inciting incident. Of course, I'm also promising to pay, but that is also speech.
    If you paid for the act I could see an argument being made for an accessory to murder case, but this just appears to be some kind of conspiracy to commit murder. Is that actually a harm though? I'm not saying that is how the courts will see it because I know they will not, but still, is it?
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-21-12 at 05:23 PM.

  6. #66
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Hate crime laws have a certain burden of proof, however. In order to be labelled a hate crime, the crime must be proved to be motivated by someones gender, race, religion, etc.
    I hate all humans, if I kill anyone does that make it a hate crime?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #67
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What matters is the infringement of the rights and liberties of an individual by another. Planning out a murder for greed is the same as planning out a murder for hate or planning out a murder for randomness.
    But, if there's a distinction between premeditated murder and murder which occurred "in the moment", why should there not be a distinction such as the hate crime?

    Using your reasoning, it shouldn't matter whether a murder was premeditated or not, but what matters in the infringement of the rights and liberties of an individual by another.

  8. #68
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Btw, the hate crime business only serves to treat people differently because of race, gender, etc. It does nothing else.

  9. #69
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I hate all humans, if I kill anyone does that make it a hate crime?
    Well, if you hate all humans, you're not singling out anyone.

  10. #70
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Well, if you hate all humans, you're not singling out anyone.
    Nope, but I will get every last one of y'all.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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