View Poll Results: Are there any examples of free speech that you believe fall under restrictions?

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  • Screaming fire and guns in a crowded auditorium/theater/church etc

    25 96.15%
  • Not acting on it yet making a film about the joys of children sexuality

    9 34.62%
  • Writing or speaking reasons why one might want to shoot or kill a candidate running for POTUS

    9 34.62%
  • Speaking inflammatory words to a culture where our troops and tax revenues are invested

    3 11.54%
  • Media produced inciting hatred while troops/citizens in that culturein order to incite violence

    5 19.23%
  • Protesting military funerals by taunting the fallen as our pay back for not being perfect

    5 19.23%
  • Making a film or writing a book about that denigrates women as not worthy except for sex services

    1 3.85%
  • Distributing a film in a country where our troops are stationed saying they represent Satan

    2 7.69%
  • Loudly bellowing sexual, political, and religious insults

    4 15.38%
  • Intentionally speaking of unproven deviant sexual inuendo of another to their community

    8 30.77%
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Thread: The First Amendment

  1. #51
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Membership or paraphrenalia. It's federal law and thus does not vary by state. The crime requires organizational involvement, and it requires that there is no other motive. It's basically anti-terrorism law.
    Okay, you bastard. Now I have to go look at the text of the federal law.

    Lemme see.....

    18 USC 249 - Hate crime acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Nope. No group membership is required for a conviction.

    And yes, there are state laws as well.

  2. #52
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Okay, you bastard. Now I have to go look at the text of the federal law.

    Lemme see.....

    18 USC 249 - Hate crime acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Nope. No group membership is required for a conviction.

    And yes, there are state laws as well.
    Read more closely. I'm not gonna argue with you about it any more. Those determined to misconstrue US federal hate crime law will ignore anything to tout the "it creates protected classes!" and "thoughts are not a crime!"; nothing new.

  3. #53
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Hate Crime enhancements shouldn't exist in the first place.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #54
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Hate Crime enhancements shouldn't exist in the first place.
    Hate crime is simply a way of establishing motive, just like "premeditated murder" or "accidental homicide." It helps us figure out the severity of the threat posed by the person who committed the crime to society.

    I am pretty sure that nothing that falls under hate crime laws wouldn't still be a crime even if it weren't committed out of hate. So what is so bad about having hate as a recognized motive?

  5. #55
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Hate crime is simply a way of establishing motive, just like "premeditated murder" or "accidental homicide." It helps us figure out the severity of the threat posed by the person who committed the crime to society.

    I am pretty sure that nothing that falls under hate crime laws wouldn't still be a crime even if it weren't committed out of hate. So what is so bad about having hate as a recognized motive?
    Well it seems to me that we ALREADY have those designations. More laws, more policing, more jail time, more government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #56
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Read more closely. I'm not gonna argue with you about it any more. Those determined to misconstrue US federal hate crime law will ignore anything to tout the "it creates protected classes!" and "thoughts are not a crime!"; nothing new.
    I'm not the one asserting that membership in a hate group is an element of this kind of crime.

    You can show me what you are relying on, and I'll look, but eco, I'm 100% comfortable that you are incorrect on this point.

  7. #57
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Hate crime is simply a way of establishing motive, just like "premeditated murder" or "accidental homicide." It helps us figure out the severity of the threat posed by the person who committed the crime to society.

    I am pretty sure that nothing that falls under hate crime laws wouldn't still be a crime even if it weren't committed out of hate. So what is so bad about having hate as a recognized motive?
    The problem with hate as the established motive and means (remember, organizational involvement is required) is that the crime moves from the realm of the personal and into the realm of societal. When the crime is organized and committed against a target based on race, gender, etc then we are talking about a whole nother set of impacts. When someone kills someone due to personal reasons, it does not affect society the same as organized terrorism; the implications for society of terrorism are much greater than those of individual crimes.

    Organized acts of targetting individuals based on sex/gender/race/etc carry considerably more societal implications. It is a more heinous and potentially dangerous act (for society) than simple murder.

  8. #58
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Hate crime is simply a way of establishing motive, just like "premeditated murder" or "accidental homicide." It helps us figure out the severity of the threat posed by the person who committed the crime to society.

    I am pretty sure that nothing that falls under hate crime laws wouldn't still be a crime even if it weren't committed out of hate. So what is so bad about having hate as a recognized motive?
    This is true, except that a hate crime can give the feds jurisdiction they don't otherwise have and that a person convicted of one such typically faces a much harsher penalty.

    But yes -- nothing is criminalized under any hate crime law that wasn't already a crime.

  9. #59
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well it seems to me that we ALREADY have those designations. More laws, more policing, more jail time, more government.
    But, is a crime committed against someone simply because of their race or religion more heinous than a crime committed simply out of greed?

  10. #60
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The problem with hate as the established motive and means (remember, organizational involvement is required) is that the crime moves from the realm of the personal and into the realm of societal. When the crime is organized and committed against a target based on race, gender, etc then we are talking about a whole nother set of impacts. When someone kills someone due to personal reasons, it does not affect society the same as organized terrorism; the implications for society of terrorism are much greater than those of individual crimes.

    Organized acts of targetting individuals based on sex/gender/race/etc carries considerably more societal implications. It is a more heinous and potentially dangerous act than simple murder.
    Eco, this might be a Patriot Act type criminal statute, but it isn't the Matthew Shepard Act.

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