View Poll Results: Are there any examples of free speech that you believe fall under restrictions?

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  • Screaming fire and guns in a crowded auditorium/theater/church etc

    25 96.15%
  • Not acting on it yet making a film about the joys of children sexuality

    9 34.62%
  • Writing or speaking reasons why one might want to shoot or kill a candidate running for POTUS

    9 34.62%
  • Speaking inflammatory words to a culture where our troops and tax revenues are invested

    3 11.54%
  • Media produced inciting hatred while troops/citizens in that culturein order to incite violence

    5 19.23%
  • Protesting military funerals by taunting the fallen as our pay back for not being perfect

    5 19.23%
  • Making a film or writing a book about that denigrates women as not worthy except for sex services

    1 3.85%
  • Distributing a film in a country where our troops are stationed saying they represent Satan

    2 7.69%
  • Loudly bellowing sexual, political, and religious insults

    4 15.38%
  • Intentionally speaking of unproven deviant sexual inuendo of another to their community

    8 30.77%
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Thread: The First Amendment

  1. #41
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's why US hate speech legislation requires a real, probable, specific and direct provocation to violence. "I don't like Jews" doesn't count, just like you saying "I don't like him" is not the same as hiring a hitman.
    There is no "US hate speech legislation", eco. There never could be, as a matter of constitutional law.

    In a hate crime, or when a hate crime enhancement is sought alongside an underlying crime, the perpetrator's speech is of evidentiary value. If a white man assaults a black woman whilst screaming "I hate Niggers!", that's some evidence of his intent.

    Many people -- including myself -- are uncomfortable even with hate crime laws. But no one in the US would succeed at criminalizing the white man screaming "I hate Niggers!" when he was otherwise behaving in a legal fashion.


  2. #42
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    There is no "US hate speech legislation", eco. There never could be, as a matter of constitutional law.
    The "reason why fighting words are categorically excluded from the protection of the First Amendment is not that their content communicates any particular idea, but that their content embodies a particularly intolerable (and socially unnecessary) mode of expressing whatever idea the speaker wishes to convey."[60] Even in cases where speech encourages illegal violence, instances of incitement qualify as criminal only if the threat of violence is imminent.[61] This strict standard prevents prosecution of many cases of incitement, including prosecution of those advocating violent opposition to the government and those exhorting violence against racial, ethnic, or gender minorities.[62]
    Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  3. #43
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Many people -- including myself -- are uncomfortable even with hate crime laws. But no one in the US would succeed at criminalizing the white man screaming "I hate Niggers!" when he was otherwise behaving in a legal fashion.
    To be prosecuted for a hate crime (in the US), one must have (1) no other motive and (2) possession of paraphrenalia or memebership in a hate group. Screaming "I hate black people" while beating someone senseless and stealing their wallet DOES NOT qualify. Even if the attacker does not steal the wallet, it DOES NOT qualify unless the attacker possesses paraphrenalia or membership to a hate group.

    Most people have no idea the requirements for hate crime prosecution in the US.

  4. #44
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Henrin, your premise is flawed. Of course mere speech can kill. If I hire a hitter to take out my business rival, I did so by speaking.
    How is speech killing in your example? Is it not the person you hired for the killing that did the act?

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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    I think putting a gun to someones head could certainly cause mental harm.
    Mental harm? Is that a right violation of some sort?

  6. #46
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How is speech killing in your example? Is it not the person you hired for the killing that did the act?
    I'm providing the inciting incident. Of course, I'm also promising to pay, but that is also speech.

  7. #47
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    To be prosecuted for a hate crime (in the US), one must have (1) no other motive and (2) possession of paraphrenalia or memebership in a hate group. Screaming "I hate black people" while beating someone senseless and stealing their wallet DOES NOT qualify. Even if the attacker does not steal the wallet, it DOES NOT qualify unless the attacker possesses paraphrenalia or membership to a hate group.

    Most people have no idea the requirements for hate crime prosecution in the US.
    There are a variety of hate crime and hate crime enhancement laws, eco.

    Hate crime laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Membership in a hate group would be some evidence of the killer's bias, but it isn't the only type of proof allowed. As you likely know, the feds just convicted a group of extremists here in Ohio for hate crimes against the Amish -- even though they were Amish as well.


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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    There are a variety of hate crime and hate crime enhancement laws, eco.

    Hate crime laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Membership in a hate group would be some evidence of the killer's bias, but it isn't the only type of proof allowed. As you likely know, the feds just convicted a group of extremists here in Ohio for hate crimes against the Amish -- even though they were Amish as well.


    The race/gender/etc of the attacker and the race/gender/etc of the attacked bears no relevance to the charges unless the attacker had (1) no other motive and (2) paraphrenalia or membership to a hate group.

    There is no protected race or gender. There have been hate crime convictions (of minorities) committed against white men. It does not vary. It's a federal charge. Thems the law.

    It's basically an anti-terrorism law and REQUIRES organizational involvement.

  9. #49
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The race/gender/etc of the attacker and the race/gender/etc of the attacked bears no relevance to the charges unless the attacker had (1) no other motive and (2) paraphrenalia or membership to a hate group.

    There is no protected race or gender. There have been hate crime convictions (of minorities) committed against white men. It does not vary. It's a federal charge. Thems the law.
    I disagree that, absent membership in a hate group, no conviction can be obtained under any hate crime or hate crime enhancement law in the US. I don't think you are correct as to the federal law, and you are ignoring all state laws of this kind.


  10. #50
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I disagree that, absent membership in a hate group, no conviction can be obtained under any hate crime or hate crime enhancement law in the US. I don't think you are correct as to the federal law, and you are ignoring all state laws of this kind.

    Membership or paraphrenalia. It's federal law and thus does not vary by state. The crime requires organizational involvement, and it requires that there is no other motive. It's basically anti-terrorism law.

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