View Poll Results: Are there any examples of free speech that you believe fall under restrictions?

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  • Screaming fire and guns in a crowded auditorium/theater/church etc

    25 96.15%
  • Not acting on it yet making a film about the joys of children sexuality

    9 34.62%
  • Writing or speaking reasons why one might want to shoot or kill a candidate running for POTUS

    9 34.62%
  • Speaking inflammatory words to a culture where our troops and tax revenues are invested

    3 11.54%
  • Media produced inciting hatred while troops/citizens in that culturein order to incite violence

    5 19.23%
  • Protesting military funerals by taunting the fallen as our pay back for not being perfect

    5 19.23%
  • Making a film or writing a book about that denigrates women as not worthy except for sex services

    1 3.85%
  • Distributing a film in a country where our troops are stationed saying they represent Satan

    2 7.69%
  • Loudly bellowing sexual, political, and religious insults

    4 15.38%
  • Intentionally speaking of unproven deviant sexual inuendo of another to their community

    8 30.77%
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Thread: The First Amendment

  1. #101
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, well warrantless searches are patently unconstitutional, and we see where those stand.
    O, the Patriot Act? That's a legitimate concern, I agree.

  2. #102
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Various justifications have been advanced. Deterrence for the violent haters among us. Avoiding the agony of a subgroup when one of their members has been brutally and randomly murdered or assaulted. Reducing the incidence of civil unrest over racial or other divisions. Punishing more drastically those crimes we find most morally repugnant.
    I'm not sure if hate crime legislation lows racial divisions or unrest, but I'm inclined to say it does the opposite. Still, I don't find much use in this idea of reducing agony by the use of punishments as it hasn't shown to do much towards those ends.

    You think motive is irrelevant? Tell that to anyone who's been acquitted on self-defense grounds.
    Not entirely, but to a large extent, yes.

  3. #103
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    O, the Patriot Act? That's a legitimate concern, I agree.
    Gross expansion of government power is always a legitimate concern. Government doesn't give up power, it takes it. When you allow it to grasp new power, it encourages it to do so more often. Government is to be limited, it must be limited. Quite frankly, we already had the laws in place to punish these offenses. The infringement of rights by another party is never anything to take lightly. But the government does not need more ammunition, we had enough prior.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #104
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    They are taken into account -- I don't know whaca mean here, dear.

    They are, but they are taken into account incorrectly is my point. It is clear if we think of it there is no harm even attempted by planning and should therefore have no punishment, but we give it a punishment all the same. Just like in the case of words, there is no harm from words but we treat it as if there is.

    Oh and you should be aware I'm not phased by being called an extremist. :P

  5. #105
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They are, but they are taken into account incorrectly is my point. It is clear if we think of it there is no harm even attempted by planning and should therefore have no punishment, but we give it a punishment all the same. Just like in the case of words, there is no harm from words but we treat it as if there is.

    Oh and you should be aware I'm not phased by being called an extremist. :P
    I don't think you are an extremist. I think you enjoy taking an extreme position in this thread, which is fine -- it's even commendable.

    If a conspiracy never achieves its goal because the conspirators called it off, there is no charge. That's called renunciation.

    If they try and fail, that's a crime.

    However, apart from a conspiracy against the president, there's no crime if none of the conspirators takes at least one actual step in furtherance of the conspiracy.

    There are a vast array of crimes, like solicitation to murder, attempted bribery, espionage, etc. that can be committed entirely by speaking or writing.

    I'm not sure what value you see in decriminalizing any of them, but I'm all ears.


  6. #106
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Gross expansion of government power is always a legitimate concern. Government doesn't give up power, it takes it. When you allow it to grasp new power, it encourages it to do so more often. Government is to be limited, it must be limited. Quite frankly, we already had the laws in place to punish these offenses. The infringement of rights by another party is never anything to take lightly. But the government does not need more ammunition, we had enough prior.
    If we're talking about the Patriot Act, I agree (in part).

    If we're still talking about hate crimes, I don't happen to agree that this is a valid criticism. I agree with you about the nature of government, but I disagree that imposing stricter sentences for some crimes represents the kind of expansion of government power that I worry about.

    We tinker with sentencing laws all the time -- three strike laws are an example. I might think they are unwise, but not as a "grab for power by the government".

  7. #107
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    Re: The First Amendment

    You may not worry about it, though it doesn't mean that it's not an actual concern. I see hate crime extensions as nothing more than excessive punishment for an unpopular crime. There are a few crimes which I feel we allow ourselves to forgo reason and logic and extend government force and punishment.

    As for three-strikes and other automatic sentencing; there should not be one single automatic sentencing crime in the USA. We have judges for a reason.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #108
    Whoa, daddy!
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Planning an act on someones life and failing at it when you actually try to pull it off are different things.
    But I don't see the harm in attempting to kill someone and failing!
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  9. #109
    global liberation

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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I'll look too -- you've made me curious.
    Score



    .

  10. #110
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    Re: The First Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    But I don't see the harm in attempting to kill someone and failing!
    That is very good point. :P I will consider it.

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