View Poll Results: When would the financial crisis end?

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  • In a few years

    10 25.64%
  • 21 December, 2012

    6 15.38%
  • Up to 5 years

    5 12.82%
  • Up to 10 years

    7 17.95%
  • When we blow ourselves to kingdom come

    1 2.56%
  • Not in our lifetime

    5 12.82%
  • Somewhere over the rainbow

    5 12.82%
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Thread: End of the financial crisis?

  1. #31
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Now, we entered the 5-th year of the financial crisis, if not more. Imho, no light in tunnel so far.

    So, how long would it take?
    It depends on who you are and what your wealth and assets are in.

    If your wealth is in the stock market and you kept your money in, you're doing pretty well.

    If your wealth is in your house then chances are you won't do well at all since the value of your home pre-crisis was inflated by easy access to credit and we won't reach a comparative level for demands of home prices like that for many years to come.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Ya, but so what.
    Government debt isn't the same as household debt and while it doesn't need to get out of control, we can inflate some of it away.
    Really. Do tell me the difference. Inflation, ie devalueing your money is theft.
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  3. #33
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Do you even know what NAFTA is? NAFTA is a free trade zone between US, Canada and Mexico. How is Caribbean, Eastern Europe, the Pacific Rim and Asia going to be affected by such treaty?

    Japan got massive tariffs, you want to swap place with them? Their export industry is in massive trouble right now, and their debt level is out of control. In fact their exports since 1992 has only increased by 50%, in America exports has increased by 80% adjusting for population increase and inflation. A lot of the industry that died in America, died due to inefficiency and not due to low wages in competitive countries. Cars who damaged the american car industry after 1994 was produced in Japan and Europe, not in China.

    If US artificially kept those companies alive, how expensive would American cars be?
    Haha if you wanna just generalize then yeah that is what its about. However like many pieces of legislation, once one is passed it opens the door for many others. Nafta is used because it was the largest of its kind, however, there are other free trade agreements we have made since then that are virtually identical to nafta and do essentially the same damage as nafta does.


    Companies that shipped jobs overseas did so because it was cheaper. Thats it. Cost of wages and cost of insurance for the employees. Everyone wants to stay so competitive with every other country, yet fail to realize that by doing so we are going to pay our employees dirt wages with no benefits. Race to the bottom...
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
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    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
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    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

  4. #34
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Haha if you wanna just generalize then yeah that is what its about. However like many pieces of legislation, once one is passed it opens the door for many others. Nafta is used because it was the largest of its kind, however, there are other free trade agreements we have made since then that are virtually identical to nafta and do essentially the same damage as nafta does.
    Japan with a lot of tariffs and subsidies are not doing well either. Companies in Japan has become very focused on exporting to their own country and is failing to innovate and compete abroad.


    Companies that shipped jobs overseas did so because it was cheaper. Thats it. Cost of wages and cost of insurance for the employees. Everyone wants to stay so competitive with every other country, yet fail to realize that by doing so we are going to pay our employees dirt wages with no benefits. Race to the bottom...
    So why aren't all companies leaving to India? They got dirt poor wages. Their average monthly wage is 60 USD per month. That is way below China who has an average salary of about 300 USD per month. US is about 3400 USD per month. Still a lot of manufacturing companies prefer China in front of India.

    That is because there are other factors that are more important than wage. Wages are not 100% of your costs. As shown US has seen exports grow faster than Japan, even when adjusting for factors like population increase and inflation. Reality is, most of the companies who died were horribly inefficient. There is no such thing as 40 USD per hour manufacturing jobs anymore. Even in America people are willing to work for 15 USD per hour doing a manufacturing job.

    If we actually did prevent US from any competition, then unions would probably push manufacturing wages up to 40 USD per hour or even more. First off it would destroy American exports, and create a deficit because of the oil dependence, but it would also lead to much higher costs for the American consumers. How is that better?
    Last edited by Camlon; 09-16-12 at 11:26 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Japan with a lot of tariffs and subsidies are not doing well either. Companies in Japan has become very focused on exporting to their own country and is failing to innovate and compete abroad.



    So why aren't all companies leaving to India? They got dirt poor wages. Their average monthly wage is 60 USD per month. That is way below China who has an average salary of about 300 USD per month. US is about 3400 USD per month. Still a lot of manufacturing companies prefer China in front of India.

    That is because there are other factors that are more important than wage. Wages are not 100% of your costs. As shown US has seen exports grow faster than Japan, even when adjusting for factors like population increase and inflation. Reality is, most of the companies who died were horribly inefficient. There is no such thing as 40 USD per hour manufacturing jobs anymore. Even in America people are willing to work for 15 USD per hour doing a manufacturing job.

    If we actually did prevent US from any competition, then unions would probably push manufacturing wages up to 40 USD per hour or even more. First off it would destroy American exports, and create a deficit because of the oil dependence, but it would also lead to much higher costs for the American consumers. How is that better?

    Because India is a **** hole. The infrastructure is virtually non-existent. China has an excellent setup to invite business in.

    If people made 40/hr there would be more money in peoples pockets and they would have more money to spend on consumer products, therefor stimulating the economy. Works a lot better then having a bunch of people with 5/hr jobs who cant afford to to anything but eat.
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
    - Abraham Lincoln

    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Because India is a **** hole. The infrastructure is virtually non-existent. China has an excellent setup to invite business in.
    There are problems investing in China too. The biggest concern is the government who will do everything in their power to help domestic companies. If it will benefit China, they will probably nationalize your business. Another problem is the corruption, plagarization and to deal with the bureaucracy. Due to problems like those, many companies choose to invest in countries like Brazil instead.

    If people made 40/hr there would be more money in peoples pockets and they would have more money to spend on consumer products, therefor stimulating the economy. Works a lot better then having a bunch of people with 5/hr jobs who cant afford to to anything but eat.
    Nope, it doesn't work that way. Higher wages in one profession without an equivilant reduction in profit or increase in efficiency leads to more expensive goods.

    If we decide to ban car imports from other countries and car companies increase their wage to $50 per hour, then I can assure you cars will become much more expensive. if everyone earn $5 per hour, then everything would be much cheaper. Think about going to a lawyer. Would they charge $150 per hour if they earn $5 per hour? What is causing problems in America is that everyone wants a little bit more of the pie, they find ways to push their wage up, and they are transfering the cost on everyone else.

  7. #37
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    If you think about this as a short- of medium-term crisis you are thinking about it all wrong. This is the decline and fall of the American Empire.
    that is one outcome, certainly.

  8. #38
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    If you think about this as a short- of medium-term crisis you are thinking about it all wrong. This is the decline and fall of the American Empire.
    Everyone is having similar problems, so not sure how you can draw that conclusion. If it was just us? Yeah maybe. But since great depression didn't do it, not sure why people would think this one will.
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  9. #39
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    There are problems investing in China too. The biggest concern is the government who will do everything in their power to help domestic companies. If it will benefit China, they will probably nationalize your business. Another problem is the corruption, plagarization and to deal with the bureaucracy. Due to problems like those, many companies choose to invest in countries like Brazil instead.


    Nope, it doesn't work that way. Higher wages in one profession without an equivilant reduction in profit or increase in efficiency leads to more expensive goods.

    If we decide to ban car imports from other countries and car companies increase their wage to $50 per hour, then I can assure you cars will become much more expensive. if everyone earn $5 per hour, then everything would be much cheaper. Think about going to a lawyer. Would they charge $150 per hour if they earn $5 per hour? What is causing problems in America is that everyone wants a little bit more of the pie, they find ways to push their wage up, and they are transfering the cost on everyone else.
    Driving everything up is what has improved our standard of living. We can look to many other countries who have not pushed up, and what they look like. They all are classified as "developing" nations.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
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    Re: End of the financial crisis?

    Voted for 10 years. the great depression lasted for about 18 years... till WW2 ended.

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