Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Wake said:

Whatever the content of the video, the maker has the right to share it.

This applies to both liberals and conservatives.

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Whatever the content?

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

It's not what you're indignant about that's the problem, it's what you're not indignant about that's so odious.

The answer is obvious to anybody who isn't advancing a bigoted anti-Muslim agenda, that no decent person would participate in a riot nor purposefully incite a riot. Why on earth is it so hard to condemn this video? Are you that hateful of Islam?

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I haven't even seen the video and I don't care HOW offensive it is. NO video made in California is unconstitutional, nor should it be, because it inspired a riot (assuming you think so) in Libya.

WHY are you so anxious to strip away all our freedoms?

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

Whatever the content?

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Yes.

Ideologues don't get to decide what content is permissable.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Wake said:

Yes.

Ideologues don't get to decide what content is permissable.

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So you're opposed to all forms of censorship, including censorship of nudity and profanity?

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

So you're opposed to all forms of censorship, including censorship of nudity and profanity?

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If it's private content that's not forced onto the public via public channels, yes.

Consider a series or movie in DVD form. The maker(s) have the right to make it as they see fit, and sell it. However, there are guidelines when it comes to broadcasting shows and movies on the very public TV channels, and so they ought to be followed.

However I see this discussion is turning to something else, so let's return to the topic at hand.

Both liberal and conservative film makers can produce whatever movies they want without fear of Big Brother meddling in their affairs.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

So you're opposed to all forms of censorship, including censorship of nudity and profanity?

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Restricting the time, place and manner in which something is shown is different from restricting it entirely.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Wake said:

If it's private content that's not forced onto the public via public channels, yes.

Consider a series or movie in DVD form. The maker(s) have the right to make it as they see fit, and sell it. However, there are guidelines when it comes to broadcasting shows and movies on the very public TV channels, and so they ought to be followed.

However I see this discussion is turning to something else, so let's return to the topic at hand.

Both liberal and conservative film makers can produce whatever movies they want without fear of Big Brother meddling in their affairs.

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Yeah, yeah, more authoritarian justification for hypocrisy. So you like free speech when it comes to bashing Muslims and indirectly inciting riots in Islamic countries, but when it comes to harmless nudity on public television you have no problem with "ideologues deciding what is permissible." Pfft.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

ThePlayDrive said:

Restricting the time, place and manner in which something is shown is different from restricting it entirely.

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You're confusing American first amendment jurisprudence with the genuine human right of freedom of expression.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

Yeah, yeah, more authoritarian justification for hypocrisy. So you like free speech when it comes to bashing Muslims and indirectly inciting riots in Islamic countries, but when it comes to harmless nudity on public television you have no problem with "ideologues deciding what is permissible." Pfft.

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I don't think you understand.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

ThePlayDrive said:

Restricting the time, place and manner in which something is shown is different from restricting it entirely.

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Not nearly enough of a difference I'm afraid.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Wake said:

I don't think you understand.

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Likewise .

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

ThePlayDrive said:

Restricting the time, place and manner in which something is shown is different from restricting it entirely.

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This is agreeable.

Makers have the right to make pornographic movies. Good for them.

However, it's entirely different to try and get naked people to be shown on all common TV channels... even kids cartoons.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

It's not what you're indignant about that's the problem, it's what you're not indignant about that's so odious.

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I think the same about you.

The answer is obvious to anybody who isn't advancing a bigoted anti-Muslim agenda, that no decent person would participate in a riot nor purposefully incite a riot. Why on earth is it so hard to condemn this video? Are you that hateful of Islam?

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I know you've come to the end of any cogent talking points when you resort to accusations.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

Yeah, yeah, more authoritarian justification for hypocrisy. So you like free speech when it comes to bashing Muslims and indirectly inciting riots in Islamic countries, but when it comes to harmless nudity on public television you have no problem with "ideologues deciding what is permissible." Pfft.

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Insulting us (erroneously) is no substitute for argument.

What is so hard about saying "Ya, I see now. You're right"?

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

The question is extremist, in the terms that a definite response is reasonably expected, for a good number of countries prize freedom of speech, which this falls under, and to allow for a government controlled ban on speech regarding nearly anything (explicit hate speech [subtle and indirect and "ambiguous" hate speech is still okay], death threats, etc excluded) is ridiculous.

This is not a debate question, nor is it a topic of discussion with the majority (if not all) of members of debatepolitics.com. The discussion should be on morality of conduct, not legality of conduct.

Perspective needs to be placed first in the personal. Social interactions are governed by niceties and often include not fully expressing one's opinion on a matter.

The more divorced people are, they, consequently, are also more dependent on stereotypes, which, for some reason, weakens their own social mores.

Should disparaging remarks of any religion be a crime? No. But are disparaging remarks necessarily poignantly critical and insightful or are they mean? Disparaging words are demeaning and belittling. They are designed to hurt.

Should it be illegal to emotionally hurt people. Clearly the answer is no. And it shouldn't be illegal to intentionally hurt people emotionally either (for none physical harm can ideally be avoided), but is that morally responsible? Is it something for which people should be awarded? Is it something for which free speech should be celebrated?

Free speech has a purpose, and so to does morality. It is not illegal to disparage people or religion or people of a certain religion, but it is wrong to do so.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

X Factor said:

I think the same about you.

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Then you think incorrectly.

I know you've come to the end of any cogent talking points when you resort to accusations.

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Nice dodge. Absent an actual refutation of what was in fact a cogent point, I take that as your de facto admission.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

Yeah, yeah, more authoritarian justification for hypocrisy. So you like free speech when it comes to bashing Muslims and indirectly inciting riots in Islamic countries, but when it comes to harmless nudity on public television you have no problem with "ideologues deciding what is permissible." Pfft.

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You seem to be rather solidly demonstrating a point that I made earlier, about the leftist view of “free speech”; that you are interested in protecting it when it consists of degrading, worthless content, such as nudity, obscenity, coarse language, and such, but not when it consists of genuine expressions of important and controversial opinions and beliefs.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Bob Blaylock said:

You seem to be rather solidly demonstrating a point that I made earlier, about the leftist view of “free speech”; that you are interested in protecting it when it consists of degrading, worthless content, such as nudity, obscenity, coarse language, and such, but not when it consists of genuine expressions of important and controversial opinions and beliefs.

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You obviously have not be able to understand the very simple point I have been making. I understand how it would go over your head, it is a subtle, nuanced point. It is that the filmmaker's speech is protected speech, as all expression that does not directly incite violence or cause other direct harm should be protected. But people who are opposed to freedom of expression when it comes to coarse language and the like are MASSIVE HYPOCRITES for rushing to defend the filmmaker.

Like these types even give a **** about free speech. They re the ones who just want to bash Muslims, to protect the right to bash Muslims, and they have have not a single bit of shame in blathering about free speech when it comes to Muslim bashing, but are right out there censoring harmless things like nudity and coarse language. That they do not notice the hypocrisy would be funny if it wasn't so sickening.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Bob Blaylock said:

You seem to be rather solidly demonstrating a point that I made earlier, about the leftist view of “free speech”; that you are interested in protecting it when it consists of degrading, worthless content, such as nudity, obscenity, coarse language, and such, but not when it consists of genuine expressions of important and controversial opinions and beliefs.

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Not for nothing, but IMO, Guy's POV is anything BUT liberal.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:

Guy Incognito said:

You obviously have not be able to understand the very simple point I have been making. I understand how it would go over your head, it is a subtle, nuanced point. It is that the filmmaker's speech is protected speech, as all expression that does not directly incite violence or cause other direct harm should be protected. But people who are opposed to freedom of expression when it comes to coarse language and the like are MASSIVE HYPOCRITES for rushing to defend the filmmaker.

Like these types even give a **** about free speech. They re the ones who just want to bash Muslims, to protect the right to bash Muslims, and they have have not a single bit of shame in blathering about free speech when it comes to Muslim bashing, but are right out there censoring harmless things like nudity and coarse language. That they do not notice the hypocrisy would be funny if it wasn't so sickening.

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Do you have anything but ad homs to post, Guy?

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Mohammed was a mass murdering, pedophiling, raping, epileptic nutcase who babeled forth some incoherent dribblings and somehow inspired an entire ethnicity to go to war based upon his insane ideals.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

David Watson said:

Mohammed was a mass murdering, pedophiling, raping, epileptic nutcase who babeled forth some incoherent dribblings and somehow inspired an entire ethnicity to go to war based upon his insane ideals.

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I hate to blow your bubble, David, but there is no proof that Mohammed ever even existed, any more than it can be proven that Jesus Christ ever existed. Both historical figures are too far back in time for there to be any solid record -- the religious texts that created their following are not reliable as a matter of anthropology, archaeology or history.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Hey, my thread is back and has over 200 votes. I like the results.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

This conversation should have ended on page 1....it is simple...the answer is NO. Further discussion is unwarranted IMO.

Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Henrin said:

So nudity and profanity hurt children? How would nudity and profanity hurt children exactly, if so?

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Damned good question.
We will have to examine cultures that are far more liberal in these areas in order to learn a few things.