View Poll Results: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?

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    7 3.20%
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Thread: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

  1. #581
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Indirect incitement to violence! come on you are basically saying if someone says something on group does not like and they react violently to it is indirect incitement to violence. Or to put it more succintly you believe that anyone can stifle freedom of speech by acting violently to somethign they dont like. following this line of reasoning means that there is no such thing as free speech as anyone can take offence at pretty much anything.
    Any attempt to incite violence should be stopped, The movie was not an attempt to incite violence, the people whiping up mobs into a frenzy to attack others over the movie were inciting violence.

    As to censorship on the airwaves, while I think the FCC rules are silly you do realize it requires a licence from the FCC to broadcast over the air, on cable etc but nothing from them to go onto the internet. Because you have to get a licence you have to comply with the rules of the FCC, like them or not, There is a difference. Perhaps the FCC should be disbanded, though then you get into the trouble of peopel using the same freqs for broadcasting etc, perhaps the FCC should only regulate those freqs and not include the content go to your federalpolitician and petition them for this. As it stands right now the FCC does both for TV/Radio but does not/cannot for internet.
    So you're defending restrictions to free speech (which we agree is a fundamental right) when those restrictions are in the form of FCC regulations and license requirements. bah! Since when do you need a license to excercise a fundamental right? Where do you get off defending censorship and prior restraint when it comes to honest broadcaster, while claiming to be a champion of the free speech of those who want to incite violence and sow discord among Muslims?

    You need to prioritize!

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    If I'm remembering my first amendment law class, they still do exercise some controls over content (or did as of about four years ago, when I took the class), although mostly in commercial speech contexts.
    I haven't actually studied con law in school in decades. I have no doubt, much has changed.

    However..........

    The fundamentals of first amendment protections, as with all our BOR freedoms, are still the same, and will never change. Which is why my family emigrated here and fought wars to protect this country.

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'll answer the second part first. You may have missed it earlier, the guy who orders a hit is just as guilty as the hit man. It doesn't excuse the hit man to acknowledge the the guy who ordered the hit committed a crime too. In this scenario, the rioters are the hit man, and the filmmaker is the guy who ordered the hit. Both are in the wrong.
    I notice you don't refer to the killers as scumbag but, fine, I'll rephrase. I think anyone who says that someone who makes a video is just as bad as someone who kills someone has their priorities out of wack. Btw, quit with the hit man analogy it doesn't work because in that case there's an agreement before hand as to the end result.

    Should we broaden the incitement exception to free speech? Maybe, it is certainly worth considering. It may not even require broadening, merely a consideration of how new technology of instantaneous global communication changes what it means to "directly" incite violence.
    We should not change anything we have a legal right to do based on fear of someone's reaction. You should have just voted yes, Guy.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Indirect incitement to violence! come on you are basically saying if someone says something on group does not like and they react violently to it is indirect incitement to violence. Or to put it more succintly you believe that anyone can stifle freedom of speech by acting violently to somethign they dont like. following this line of reasoning means that there is no such thing as free speech as anyone can take offence at pretty much anything.
    Any attempt to incite violence should be stopped, The movie was not an attempt to incite violence, the people whiping up mobs into a frenzy to attack others over the movie were inciting violence.

    As to censorship on the airwaves, while I think the FCC rules are silly you do realize it requires a licence from the FCC to broadcast over the air, on cable etc but nothing from them to go onto the internet. Because you have to get a licence you have to comply with the rules of the FCC, like them or not, There is a difference. Perhaps the FCC should be disbanded, though then you get into the trouble of peopel using the same freqs for broadcasting etc, perhaps the FCC should only regulate those freqs and not include the content go to your federalpolitician and petition them for this. As it stands right now the FCC does both for TV/Radio but does not/cannot for internet.
    "Incitment" as an exception to freedom of speech requires direct, face to face speech and also requires the incitees be on US soil.

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I notice you don't refer to the killers as scumbag but, fine, I'll rephrase. I think anyone who says that someone who makes a video is just as bad as someone who kills someone has their priorities out of wack. Btw, quit with the hit man analogy it doesn't work because in that case there's an agreement before hand as to the end result.



    We should not change anything we have a legal right to do based on fear of someone's reaction. You should have just voted yes, Guy.
    I deliberately did not vote because the question is too simplistic. You are quite wrong in mischaracterizing my argument as based on fear. Have you ever heard the expression that your right to swing your fist ends at my nose?

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post

    You need to prioritize!
    Well, you have obviously prioritized the Islamist agenda to destroy free speech in our country, I'll give you that.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    So you're defending restrictions to free speech (which we agree is a fundamental right) when those restrictions are in the form of FCC regulations and license requirements. bah! Since when do you need a license to excercise a fundamental right? Where do you get off defending censorship and prior restraint when it comes to honest broadcaster, while claiming to be a champion of the free speech of those who want to incite violence and sow discord among Muslims?

    You need to prioritize!
    No I wasnt defending the FCC I was explaining the difference between communications that fall under FCC control and those that dont. If you fail to recognize this difference it is not my fault.
    If you believe your "ěndirect" incitement to violence statements then you need to rethink what freedom off speech actually is.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

  8. #588
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    No I wasnt defending the FCC I was explaining the difference between communications that fall under FCC control and those that dont. If you fail to recognize this difference it is not my fault.
    If you believe your "ěndirect" incitement to violence statements then you need to rethink what freedom off speech actually is.
    I apologize for mischaracterizing your argument.
    I also think you are still misunderstanding mine. Indirect incitement to violence is protected speech, direct incitement to violence is not. Can we agree to that much?

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I deliberately did not vote because the question is too simplistic. You are quite wrong in mischaracterizing my argument as based on fear. Have you ever heard the expression that your right to swing your fist ends at my nose?
    I'm not wrong, I think you even said it outright. I don't know if you're arguing just to argue or if you really believe what you're saying but I think you've posted so many contradictory things, you've forgotten some of the arguments you've made.

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I'm not wrong, I think you even said it outright. I don't know if you're arguing just to argue or if you really believe what you're saying but I think you've posted so many contradictory things, you've forgotten some of the arguments you've made.
    If you think I said something contradictory, it is because you did not understand what I wrote. But you are welcome try to prove it with direct quotes. You will inevitably fail at this.

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