View Poll Results: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?

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    7 3.20%
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    209 95.43%
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Thread: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

  1. #571
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I spent several years in the middle east, living among and working with Muslims. I simply dislike that their fanatics are able to thrive because people are so willing to give them a free pass. Insert any other religion in the title and tell me who would vote yes?

    Terrorist thrive on fear and that is what is driving this, not tolerance. If it was simply tolerance why has this question not been asked about other religions?
    I wouldn't vote yes for any religion. I have abstained since the question is too simplistic. My vote would be something like "no, unless it is direct incitement to violence."

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I spent several years in the middle east, living among and working with Muslims. I simply dislike that their fanatics are able to thrive because people are so willing to give them a free pass. Insert any other religion in the title and tell me who would vote yes?

    Terrorist thrive on fear and that is what is driving this, not tolerance. If it was simply tolerance why has this question not been asked about other religions?
    By the way, thank you for your service, sir.

  3. #573
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You are making me into a Strawman. I was talking about direct incitements to violence. The movie is an indirect incitement and therefore should be protected speech. My heart doesn't exactly bleed for the scumbag who made the film, but he had a right to do it and he is not who I was referring to in the post you quoted.

    You seem like a nice guy. A lot of people in this thread appear to be working out anger against me for unrelated vendettas, and are purposefully contorting my words. I would like to ask you, as a favor, to read my posts carefully because my words are chosen very carefully, and you seem to be inadvertently Misinterpreting me.
    This thread is about:
    Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?
    The answer has to be a categoric NO A resoundibg unwavering absolute NO.
    Incitement to violence is another topic. Go back and read my posts, and ask yourself why you you responded as you did to my post, If you agree with me then your reply makes no sense, if you disagree with me explain why.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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  4. #574
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    O
    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    This thread is about:
    Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?
    The answer has to be a categoric NO A resoundibg unwavering absolute NO.
    Incitement to violence is another topic. Go back and read my posts, and ask yourself why you you responded as you did to my post, If you agree with me then your reply makes no sense, if you disagree with me explain why.
    The topic of incitement to violence absolutely bears on this topic because that is what the film is. No one can doubt that and maintain any credibility. The question is, is it a protected form of incitement (indirect) or not(direct). It barely makes it. Hell, perhaps we need to reconsider our law on what constitutes direct incitement in he Internet age.

    Should any disparaging remark about a religious figure be a crime? I agree it is a resounding no. Should a deliberate attempt to incite violence be against the law? Maybe, it depends on the circumstances.

    Anybody who passionately defends this scumbag on free speech grounds, but is unwilling to stand up to everyday forms of censorship, has got their priorities totally out of whack.

  5. #575
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I am a libertarian first and foremost, my concern is getting the government to respect all fundamental human right, not respect the wishes of a bunch of slaveholders.
    So you would rather respect the wishes of subhuman savages who are not members of this society, and who have no standing herein, over the wishes of the “slaveholders” who established this society, and over the wishes of those of us who are now members in standing of this society? That's a rather bizarre representation of Libertarianism, I must say.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    So you would rather respect the wishes of subhuman savages who are not members of this society, and who have no standing herein, over the wishes of the “slaveholders” who established this society, and over the wishes of those of us who are now members in standing of this society? That's a rather bizarre representation of Libertarianism, I must say.
    I come from the academic tradition of Nozickian/Rothbardian libertarians. Frankly, I have never understood you folks who hold the framers up like gods, and why you think that following the constitution as they wrote it has anything to do with libertarianism.

    As for your question, you have made me into a Strawman, and slurred a religion of peace, so it is not possible for me to answer other than to say you need to get your facts straight, both about me and the Islamic faith.

  7. #577
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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    O
    The topic of incitement to violence absolutely bears on this topic because that is what the film is. No one can doubt that and maintain any credibility. The question is, is it a protected form of incitement (indirect) or not(direct). It barely makes it. Hell, perhaps we need to reconsider our law on what constitutes direct incitement in he Internet age.

    Should any disparaging remark about a religious figure be a crime? I agree it is a resounding no. Should a deliberate attempt to incite violence be against the law? Maybe, it depends on the circumstances.
    Looks like you're saying you would actually broaden the scope of speech that could be criminally punished.

    Anybody who passionately defends this scumbag on free speech grounds, but is unwilling to stand up to everyday forms of censorship, has got their priorities totally out of whack.
    I feel the same way about people who express a much stronger disapproval for the guy who made the video over the people who actually did the killing.

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Looks like you're saying you would actually broaden the scope of speech that could be criminally punished.



    I feel the same way about people who express a much stronger disapproval for the guy who made the video over the people who actually did the killing.
    I'll answer the second part first. You may have missed it earlier, the guy who orders a hit is just as guilty as the hit man. It doesn't excuse the hit man to acknowledge the the guy who ordered the hit committed a crime too. In this scenario, the rioters are the hit man, and the filmmaker is the guy who ordered the hit. Both are in the wrong.

    Should we broaden the incitement exception to free speech? Maybe, it is certainly worth considering. It may not even require broadening, merely a consideration of how new technology of instantaneous global communication changes what it means to "directly" incite violence.

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Well, the FCC does regulate broadcasters, but if they did not, the system would break down. A channel has to be assigned, frequencies partioned out, etc.

    At one time, the FCC DID censor the content of tv. But to my (admittedly limited) knowledge, that has not been true in at least a decade.
    If I'm remembering my first amendment law class, they still do exercise some controls over content (or did as of about four years ago, when I took the class), although mostly in commercial speech contexts.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    O
    The topic of incitement to violence absolutely bears on this topic because that is what the film is. No one can doubt that and maintain any credibility. The question is, is it a protected form of incitement (indirect) or not(direct). It barely makes it. Hell, perhaps we need to reconsider our law on what constitutes direct incitement in he Internet age.

    Should any disparaging remark about a religious figure be a crime? I agree it is a resounding no. Should a deliberate attempt to incite violence be against the law? Maybe, it depends on the circumstances.

    Anybody who passionately defends this scumbag on free speech grounds, but is unwilling to stand up to everyday forms of censorship, has got their priorities totally out of whack.
    Indirect incitement to violence! come on you are basically saying if someone says something on group does not like and they react violently to it is indirect incitement to violence. Or to put it more succintly you believe that anyone can stifle freedom of speech by acting violently to somethign they dont like. following this line of reasoning means that there is no such thing as free speech as anyone can take offence at pretty much anything.
    Any attempt to incite violence should be stopped, The movie was not an attempt to incite violence, the people whiping up mobs into a frenzy to attack others over the movie were inciting violence.

    As to censorship on the airwaves, while I think the FCC rules are silly you do realize it requires a licence from the FCC to broadcast over the air, on cable etc but nothing from them to go onto the internet. Because you have to get a licence you have to comply with the rules of the FCC, like them or not, There is a difference. Perhaps the FCC should be disbanded, though then you get into the trouble of peopel using the same freqs for broadcasting etc, perhaps the FCC should only regulate those freqs and not include the content go to your federalpolitician and petition them for this. As it stands right now the FCC does both for TV/Radio but does not/cannot for internet.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

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