View Poll Results: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?

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Thread: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

  1. #271
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Clearly, this movie was meant to stir up more dirt between Muslims and Jews. If any piece of "art" was created to incite hate and possibly violence, it's the "Innocence of Muslims". So again, should this guy be punished?
    Absolutely not. The response of murder and assault is not a rational response to this movie, even if it does denigrate the Muslim faith. The individual cannot be held responsible for irrational reaction to their exercise of right. The actions of others does not excuse infringement of one's rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If you restrict free speech because people have made it their intent to CHOOSE to commit attrocities [sic] if said speech is done, then you essentially create a situation and an acknowledgement that free speech is only free if others chooes [sic] not to be upset about it. If you ban disaparaging [sic] action towards Muhammed [sic] because Muslims on the other side of the world may CHOOSE to commit attrocities [sic] then you invite any other group to choose "We don't want [x] speech done, so if we hear it we'll riot and kill people" in hopes of getting that banned as well.
    It's called a heckler's veto — allowing one group the power to force a violation of someone else's rights by threatening to behave badly if that right is exercised; subverting the authority and duty of government to protect the rights of those under its jurisdiction, by forcing that government to obey the will of a violent mob.
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    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It's called a heckler's veto — allowing one group the power to force a violation of someone else's rights by threatening to behave badly if that right is exercised; subverting the authority and duty of government to protect the rights of those under its jurisdiction, by forcing that government to obey the will of a violent mob.
    I have to admit I've never heard that term before but I like it. Thanks for sharing, though I knew about the theory I didn't realize it had been given a scholarly credential.
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Absolutely not. The response of murder and assault is not a rational response to this movie, even if it does denigrate the Muslim faith. The individual cannot be held responsible for irrational reaction to their exercise of right. The actions of others does not excuse infringement of one's rights.
    What about the individual who darn wells knows what he is doing and knows that there is a good chance such a reaction will happen and hopes for it?
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It's called a heckler's veto — allowing one group the power to force a violation of someone else's rights by threatening to behave badly if that right is exercised; subverting the authority and duty of government to protect the rights of those under its jurisdiction, by forcing that government to obey the will of a violent mob.
    I think a hecklers veto is more of a situation where a small minority of people - perhaps only one - can make life miserable for everybody else ala the heckler at a club who nobody paid to see and is wrecking the show for all the other customers.

    Does that really apply to such massive numbers of people in the middle east?

    Could it be that the real hecklers veto here is being exercised by the film maker as a protest against a US foreign policy that he wants changed?
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What about the individual who darn wells knows what he is doing and knows that there is a good chance such a reaction will happen and hopes for it?
    I dare say a man's hopes are hard to prove in a court of law.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I dare say a man's hopes are hard to prove in a court of law.
    I certainly agree with that. But this is no court of law.
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What about the individual who darn wells knows what he is doing and knows that there is a good chance such a reaction will happen and hopes for it?
    Doesn't matter. That's the reason we have laws to punish the violent, and a constitution to protect our rights to free speech. If I say something derrogatory about you, and you get offended, and shoot me, it's you who has committed the crime, because you couldn't control your impulses in response to a non-violent action. It's all about tolerance of differing opinions. You can get offended and offer a similar retort, but if you physically harm me, in response to something I say which hurts your feelings, you have crossed over from free speech to criminal activity. The only way to uphold free speech is to require that we all tolerate each other's opinions without acting upon our base impulses.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I certainly agree with that. But this is no court of law.
    I cannot see how one can be held responsible for the irrational actions of others. Perhaps if this was an instantaneous thing there could be more call for infringement, but people had plenty of time after watching the clip to choose a path of action. Those who have acted out in violence are the ones at fault for the violence. I do not see how we could properly infringe upon the rights of others because some react violently to the exercise of rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I cannot see how one can be held responsible for the irrational actions of others. Perhaps if this was an instantaneous thing there could be more call for infringement, but people had plenty of time after watching the clip to choose a path of action. Those who have acted out in violence are the ones at fault for the violence. I do not see how we could properly infringe upon the rights of others because some react violently to the exercise of rights.
    We are judging this by our standards and our laws and our principles.

    What if we have a situation where a person wants to be the lit fuse to explode the bomb and feels they know how to do it perfectly legally and within his rights?

    What is this an intentional effort to cause chaos and even possibly war?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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