View Poll Results: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?

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Thread: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

  1. #161
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter View Post
    My speech and your CHOSEN reaction to that speech are not one and the same.
    Yep.


    and, of course, since religion is also a choice, it should stand the same scrutiny as any other ideology also chosen freely. That so many adhere to an ideology that treat it as if it ISN'T a choice should provide any thinking person with ample reason for rejecting it. Unfortunately, there are precious few thinking people out there, it seems.
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Has there been some big erosion in Freedom of Speech I'm not aware of? The last major case of this I know of was the Westboro Baptist Church case, which they won.
    And actually, as much as I loath what the WBC does and stands for, I agreed with the Supreme Court on that decision. It's easy to believe that speech that is innocuous or inoffensive should be protected, but it's when the speech is objectional (in some cases very objectionable) that we show our real commitment to free speech.
    Last edited by X Factor; 09-16-12 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I actually could see more reason to limit WBC on fighting words and incitement than what is proposed here. WBC chose the worst Time(funeral), Place(gravesite), and Manner(vitriolic and uncivil) to attack people who did nothing but serve a country and sacrifice for it, really all those funeral protests represent are large scale gay bashings. Frankly, and I speak for myself, I think I would beat a WBC member to death if they did that to a family member of mine, not being bold, that's how much I love my family and friends.
    I do, too, for the reason that what they are doing is stalking and harassment rather than indulging in free speech. They are purposely intruding upon the lives of others rather than voicing their opinions in such a way that others are free to take them or leave them. If I were to post some idiotic youtube piece, people are free to take it or leave it. If I followed people around harassing them with the same idiocy to the point they could not avoid me, I would be transgressing.
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I actually could see more reason to limit WBC on fighting words and incitement than what is proposed here. WBC chose the worst Time(funeral), Place(gravesite), and Manner(vitriolic and uncivil) to attack people who did nothing but serve a country and sacrifice for it, really all those funeral protests represent are large scale gay bashings. Frankly, and I speak for myself, I think I would beat a WBC member to death if they did that to a family member of mine, not being bold, that's how much I love my family and friends.
    I agree and I think that decision should have been decided differently (and likely would have been, on better facts). But even if it had, that would in no way lead anyone with any logic to conclude that any US speech which MIGHT offend another person on Planet Earth with any known propensity for violence should also be illegal.

    I don't think people are thinking this through. Apart from the strategic error of trying to appease a bully, the speech that'd become illegal wouldn't simply be remarks trashing the Prophet Muhammed. It'd also be speech condemning polygamy, favoring women's rights, supporting gay rights, etc. As so many Ayatollehs have been at pains to remind us, they find almost everything about the USA worthy of condemnation.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I do, too, for the reason that what they are doing is stalking and harassment rather than indulging in free speech. They are purposely intruding upon the lives of others rather than voicing their opinions in such a way that others are free to take them or leave them. If I were to post some idiotic youtube piece, people are free to take it or leave it. If I followed people around harassing them with the same idiocy to the point they could not avoid me, I would be transgressing.
    The plaintiff in the WBC case was the father of a slain solider, shielded from view of these despicable people during his son's funeral. As are all mourners. I'm sure he was expecting the protest but in fact, he didn't know it had taken place until after they had dispersed. I believe this is the only reason their horrendous conduct isn't legally "fighting words".

    If the facts were even slightly different, I think the WBC would have lost.

  6. #166
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    The plaintiff in the WBC case was the father of a slain solider, shielded from view of these despicable people during his son's funeral. As are all mourners. I'm sure he was expecting the protest but in fact, he didn't know it had taken place until after they had dispersed. I believe this is the only reason their horrendous conduct isn't legally "fighting words".

    If the facts were even slightly different, I think the WBC would have lost.
    I guess the question I would ask, then, is why it was necessary to shield him from view in the first place? Make no mistake -- I have nothing but complete admiration for those who volunteer their time to act as human shields against these vile things -- but if the very fact that they are doing so is what allows the things to continue their actions, then perhaps it is counter productive in the long run.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    No. Then we have no such thing as freedom of speech.


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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I guess the question I would ask, then, is why it was necessary to shield him from view in the first place? Make no mistake -- I have nothing but complete admiration for those who volunteer their time to act as human shields against these vile things -- but if the very fact that they are doing so is what allows the things to continue their actions, then perhaps it is counter productive in the long run.
    No one involved at the time anticipated this, Gardener, and I'm not sure the decision makes it clear it turns on that point. (I'd have to go back and read it.)

    I believe the father sued the WBC for extreme emotional distress, which (almost always) has a "touching" prerequisite, as in, you can't sue for this if the defendant never touched you. Being as the WBC and the father never had any direct contact, that was missing too.


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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No. Then we have no such thing as freedom of speech.
    Really. If we create a legal ban on all language any violent person on the planet might object to, we'd be left grunting at one another.

  10. #170
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    No one involved at the time anticipated this, Gardener, and I'm not sure the decision makes it clear it turns on that point. (I'd have to go back and read it.)

    I believe the father sued the WBC for extreme emotional distress, which (almost always) has a "touching" prerequisite, as in, you can't sue for this if the defendant never touched you. Being as the WBC and the father never had any direct contact, that was missing too.

    I think you are missing my point, there, Pinky. I was simply pointing out the irony that if the case turned on whether or not the father had direct contact with the goons, and the reason for this was all the fine people who show up at these funerals to provide a human shield against this disgusting filth, then the fact that such people did provide a shield prevented the success of the suit.

    I am no lawyer, but I would have argued that if the actions of the human filth make it necessary for others to show up en masse in order to prevent such direct contact, then this really provides no excuse for the actions, themselves, since such actions make the response necessary in order to avoid the contact. .
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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