View Poll Results: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?

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    7 3.20%
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Thread: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

  1. #151
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Of course not, our freedom should not be limited by the actions of crazy people.
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Isn't it possible in the USofA to be charged with a crime for conspiring to kill the president?
    Without ever leaving your bedroom, can't you be charged with a crime for simply blogging about such a thing?

    No shots fired, never being closer than 1000 miles away, but just discussing over the phone, or through the internet can't you be charged with a crime?
    No, not always. If the threat is mailed, yes. If it is not mailed, then the threat has to be coupled with at least one step towards carrying it out.

    18 USC 871 - Threats against President and successors to the Presidency | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Also, "I wish the president would die", "I hope someday I can kill the president" and the like won't do, even if mailed. You have to actually threaten to kill (or kidnap).

    And the president is the only person in the US as to which the standard is this low.

  3. #153
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    No, not always. If the threat is mailed, yes. If it is not mailed, then the threat has to be coupled with at least one step towards carrying it out.

    18 USC 871 - Threats against President and successors to the Presidency | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Also, "I wish the president would die", "I hope someday I can kill the president" and the like won't do, even if mailed. You have to actually threaten to kill (or kidnap).

    And the president is the only person in the US as to which the standard is this low.
    Yep, it must be a direct threat and must have some indication of immediacy.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Absolutely not.

    That said, there is no constitutional right to speech which incites violence against others. Several other exclusions to "free speech" protections have already been listed... but to make it illegal to criticize a particular religion? Ridiculous.
    Yes, true, but "fighting words" has been interpreted as real-time, face-to-face speech between Americans or American residents at the time violence might occur. Stretching this to cover every human on Planet Earth would effectively muzzle us all.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    I voted no, but I think a few reasonable caveats should apply. For instance, speech that's clearly intended to stir up violence either by muslims or against muslims, when it's also either misleading or downright false, ought to be illegal. Ditto speech that does so to any other group or entity.

    In other words: "Mohammed was a big fat doodiehead," while obviously ignorant and absurd, shouldn't be illegal. But, "Mohammed was a big fat doodiehead, and all you Bible-believing Christians ought to get your guns and kill your Muslim neighbors because they're going to blow the planet up with a huge nuclear bomb vest" should be illegal.
    No, it shouldn't -- unless you're addressing a bunch a nutters ready to bomb a Muslim mosque in the US at that very moment.

  6. #156
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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    My speech and your CHOSEN reaction to that speech are not one and the same. I loathe the rhetoric that blames one person for the chosen course of action on the part of another. Violence can only ensue if the person perpetrating that act chooses to undertake it. They had a choice. They had control over that choice. Be violent/don't be violent. If they choose violence, they are responsible, 100%, for the consequences of that choice.

    Free speech should be protected and that is the message that should have been shouted loud and clear this week out of Washington to the rioting, looting whackos in the Middle East.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    no, i don't believe we should...I happen to enjoy free speech

    .. but i don't think it will be too many more years before we start doing such things.... we are already moving away from freedoms and liberties, so it's just a matter of time.
    Has there been some big erosion in Freedom of Speech I'm not aware of? The last major case of this I know of was the Westboro Baptist Church case, which they won.

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    re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    How about if we change the freedom of religion law and outlaw Islam?
    This is even sillier than suggesting we outlaw anti-Muslim remarks. Why should American Muslims (and no one else) lose the freedom to worship as they choose because of the acts of zealots half-way around the world?

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    But, what does this say about the free speech movement of 1963?

    And I don't see recruitment as free speech, but rather solicitation.
    The government has no free speech rights, jet. Only an individual can.

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    Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Has there been some big erosion in Freedom of Speech I'm not aware of? The last major case of this I know of was the Westboro Baptist Church case, which they won.
    I actually could see more reason to limit WBC on fighting words and incitement than what is proposed here. WBC chose the worst Time(funeral), Place(gravesite), and Manner(vitriolic and uncivil) to attack people who did nothing but serve a country and sacrifice for it, really all those funeral protests represent are large scale gay bashings. Frankly, and I speak for myself, I think I would beat a WBC member to death if they did that to a family member of mine, not being bold, that's how much I love my family and friends.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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