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Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?


  • Total voters
    186
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

What about the individual who darn wells knows what he is doing and knows that there is a good chance such a reaction will happen and hopes for it?

I dare say a man's hopes are hard to prove in a court of law.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

I dare say a man's hopes are hard to prove in a court of law.

I certainly agree with that. But this is no court of law.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

What about the individual who darn wells knows what he is doing and knows that there is a good chance such a reaction will happen and hopes for it?

Doesn't matter. That's the reason we have laws to punish the violent, and a constitution to protect our rights to free speech. If I say something derrogatory about you, and you get offended, and shoot me, it's you who has committed the crime, because you couldn't control your impulses in response to a non-violent action. It's all about tolerance of differing opinions. You can get offended and offer a similar retort, but if you physically harm me, in response to something I say which hurts your feelings, you have crossed over from free speech to criminal activity. The only way to uphold free speech is to require that we all tolerate each other's opinions without acting upon our base impulses.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

I certainly agree with that. But this is no court of law.

I cannot see how one can be held responsible for the irrational actions of others. Perhaps if this was an instantaneous thing there could be more call for infringement, but people had plenty of time after watching the clip to choose a path of action. Those who have acted out in violence are the ones at fault for the violence. I do not see how we could properly infringe upon the rights of others because some react violently to the exercise of rights.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

I cannot see how one can be held responsible for the irrational actions of others. Perhaps if this was an instantaneous thing there could be more call for infringement, but people had plenty of time after watching the clip to choose a path of action. Those who have acted out in violence are the ones at fault for the violence. I do not see how we could properly infringe upon the rights of others because some react violently to the exercise of rights.

We are judging this by our standards and our laws and our principles.

What if we have a situation where a person wants to be the lit fuse to explode the bomb and feels they know how to do it perfectly legally and within his rights?

What is this an intentional effort to cause chaos and even possibly war?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

We are judging this by our standards and our laws and our principles.

What if we have a situation where a person wants to be the lit fuse to explode the bomb and feels they know how to do it perfectly legally and within his rights?

What is this an intentional effort to cause chaos and even possibly war?

Well since we are talking about the US making a law against such speech, then it most certainly MUST be judged by our standards, our laws, and our principles. I can hardly be held accountable for actions of people half the globe away.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Well since we are talking about the US making a law against such speech, then it most certainly MUST be judged by our standards, our laws, and our principles. I can hardly be held accountable for actions of people half the globe away.

I am NOT endorsing any law against free speech. What I am asking if 99% of Americans are being played for suckers by a Machiavellian filmmaker with an extremist agenda of his own.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

What about the individual who darn wells knows what he is doing and knows that there is a good chance such a reaction will happen and hopes for it?

By making a film about a historical figure?

Why do you despise the liberal notion of right to free speech and why do you wish to accommodate the demands of extreme right totalitarians?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

By making a film about a historical figure?

Why do you despise the liberal notion of right to free speech and why do you wish to accommodate the demands of extreme right totalitarians?

I do not on either count.

Why do you not want to face the fact that you might be played for a chump or a sap in all this?

Is it possible that this filmmaker darn wells knows what he is doing and knows that there is a good chance such a reaction will happen and hopes for it?

Will you stand up and cheer as extremists like this create events to push us into war in the middle east? Will you enlist yourself or invest your son or daughter to defend their rights to make these films?
 
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Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Why do you not want to face the fact that you might be played for a chump or a sap in all this?

So, let me get this right -- some idiot fundie clerics thousands of miles away who have an agenda to create a totalitarian theocratic Islamist state get their primitive, inbred followers to riot over some stupid, obscure movie few of them have even seen, and so your response is to want to make us more like them by eliminating our ability to speak freely, thereby helping to fulfil their objective.

and you think I'm the chump? :doh
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

So, let me get this right -- some idiot fundie clerics thousands of miles away who have an agenda to create a totalitarian theocratic Islamist state get their primitive, inbred followers to riot over some stupid, obscure movie few of them have even seen, and so your response is to want to make us more like them by eliminating our ability to speak freely, thereby helping to fulfil their objective.

and you think I'm the chump? :doh

Yes - I think you are the prize chump of all time if you believe that is what I actually said. CHUMP in giant 200 foot letters carved into the side of a mountain. The problem is I never said it.

I NEVER said I wanted to eliminate any of our freedoms. If you think I did please reproduce my exact words right now, right here.

All I am trying to do here is get people to think beyond the first knee jerk reaction to this and face some deeper and far more disturbing possibilities that a zealot is attempting to manipulate us into disaster if we are not careful.
 
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Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Perhaps those on the left worried about limiting speech should consider this--Should the US make it against the law to be critical of fire and brimstone baptists? I ask this because the Old Testament is considered a part of the Islamic Doctrine so one could argue that Christianity cannot be criticized either if that were the law.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Perhaps those on the left worried about limiting speech should consider this--Should the US make it against the law to be critical of fire and brimstone baptists? I ask this because the Old Testament is considered a part of the Islamic Doctrine so one could argue that Christianity cannot be criticized either if that were the law.

That would never happen. People in this part of the world are comfortable with Christians, as western society is based on Judeo-Christian principles, and non-Christians are not afraid of Christians, as they identify with them and know how to deal with them. The problem is, people here are afraid of Muslims because they are not comfortable with them. People in this part of the world treat Muslims with kid gloves, because of the unpredictability factor, and because they dare not call Islamic practices what they are, lest they get threatened. They are cowards. Many westerners do not have the courage of their convictions when it comes to freedom. They will gladly give it up rather than face a threat against democratic principles with courage.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Yes - I think you are the prize chump of all time if you believe that is what I actually said. CHUMP in giant 200 foot letters carved into the side of a mountain. The problem is I never said it.

I NEVER said I wanted to eliminate any of our freedoms. If you think I did please reproduce my exact words right now, right here.

All I am trying to do here is get people to think beyond the first knee jerk reaction to this and face some deeper and far more disturbing possibilities that a zealot is attempting to manipulate us into disaster if we are not careful.

Were you actually born yesterday, Haymarket, or does it just seem that way? THere are videos on youtube offensive to members of just about any group imagineable. There are videos offensive to Christians. There are videos offensive to Jews. There are videos offensive to scientologists and republicans and socialists and men and women and white people and black people and you name it. These videos were uploaded with the ful intent that they WOULD be offensive to people in many cases, but you don't care because you are not thinking about the issue here, but only reacting blindly because Islamists went on rampages. The only reason they did so was because this stupid, obscure little video was useful to their clerics in motivating them on the anniversary of 911.

How ironic that you say you are trying to get people to think while reacting with not the slightest bit of reason or intelligence here.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

That would never happen. People in this part of the world are comfortable with Christians, as western society is based on Judeo-Christian principles, and non-Christians are not afraid of Christians, as they identify with them and know how to deal with them. The problem is, people here are afraid of Muslims because they are not comfortable with them. People in this part of the world treat Muslims with kid gloves, because of the unpredictability factor, and because they dare not call Islamic practices what they are, lest they get threatened. They are cowards. Many westerners do not have the courage of their convictions when it comes to freedom. They will gladly give it up rather than face a threat against democratic principles with courage.

Speaking of cowardice, I find it interesting how there are so few who actually voted "yes" to the poll, but quite a few who are arguing against free speech in their actual statements, but who lack the courage of their convictions to be direct about it. Weasle words certainly abound here.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

I am NOT endorsing any law against free speech. What I am asking if 99% of Americans are being played for suckers by a Machiavellian filmmaker with an extremist agenda of his own.

How are we "being played"? This is a consequence of freedom. We knew stuff like this could happen going into it.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Were you actually born yesterday, Haymarket, or does it just seem that way? THere are videos on youtube offensive to members of just about any group imagineable. There are videos offensive to Christians. There are videos offensive to Jews. There are videos offensive to scientologists and republicans and socialists and men and women and white people and black people and you name it. These videos were uploaded with the ful intent that they WOULD be offensive to people in many cases, but you don't care because you are not thinking about the issue here, but only reacting blindly because Islamists went on rampages. The only reason they did so was because this stupid, obscure little video was useful to their clerics in motivating them on the anniversary of 911.

How ironic that you say you are trying to get people to think while reacting with not the slightest bit of reason or intelligence here.

Knowing who to insult and get the desired reaction you want to get is an art.

Using reason and intelligence is exactly what I am asking of you and others. But I fear it is your knee jerk response which is the driving force in your views and you are fighting mightily to avoid looking at how you are being manipulated and played for a sucker.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

How are we "being played"? This is a consequence of freedom. We knew stuff like this could happen going into it.

Many on the right are already beating the drums of war. And I suspect this is the desired goal of this particular filmmaker.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Knowing who to insult and get the desired reaction you want to get is an art.

Using reason and intelligence is exactly what I am asking of you and others. But I fear it is your knee jerk response which is the driving force in your views and you are fighting mightily to avoid looking at how you are being manipulated and played for a sucker.

My irony alert system was ringing off the hook, and so I investigated the reason. I was not disappointed.

I do need to go, now, though, since my sides are splitting from all the laughing.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

I join my answer to all others who answered NO.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

My irony alert system was ringing off the hook, and so I investigated the reason. I was not disappointed.

I do need to go, now, though, since my sides are splitting from all the laughing.

The ones laughing are the zealots behind this movie who are manipulating you.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Moderator's Warning:
Folks, we need to chill a bit here and stay away from personal remarks mmmkay?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Many on the right are already beating the drums of war. And I suspect this is the desired goal of this particular filmmaker.

This particular film maker cannot send us to war. If we go it's because left and right are already beating the drums of war and looking for an excuse. As such, fault is not with the film maker but rather with our government.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Many on the right are already beating the drums of war. And I suspect this is the desired goal of this particular filmmaker.

Who? Where? From what I can tell, many of us think we should get the hell out of the ME altogether, and I personally think we were stupid to ever go there in the first place. War against whom?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

The ones laughing are the zealots behind this movie who are manipulating you.

The fact that I have the same opinion about free speech today as I did last week means I have been manipulated how, again?
 
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