View Poll Results: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

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  • Yes

    96 80.00%
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    24 20.00%
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Thread: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

  1. #301
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well that is both true and really dishonest at the same time
    How can the rule of law be dishonest? Like taxation is stealing?

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by comedy4all
    Oh yes let’s play the “some” and “not all” game.
    I'm not familiar with that game...logically, "some" means "at least one," and "not all" means "at least not one."

    Quote Originally Posted by comedy4all
    It is a possibility that “some” of the people that are considered rich got that way by stealing their money.
    Certainly.

    Quote Originally Posted by comedy4all
    Although the vast majority of them did it the legitimate way.
    How do you know? If what you described right after this is the "legitimate way," then I am not very sure that most of the wealthy got their wealth that way. In fact, I think probably most did not, especially in the case of the "super rich."

    Quote Originally Posted by comedy4all
    I am also going to add my response to another thread, because I think that it applies here.
    I'm not sure how. I agree that my experience accords somewhat with yours, though I have known some dirt-poor people who really had suffered misfortune after misfortune, and who were trying their best to turn things around and just not having any luck.

    That said, I think your discussion avoids some important points. First, while I acknowledge I was the first to use the term "poor," I meant it simply to mean "not-rich." I think most of the theft, fraud, and embezzlement has occurred against the middle class and former middle class.

    Second, I'm not sure I understand the motivation for your discussion. The issue hardly has anything to do with the super-poor, so much as it does with the fact that a person in America can now be both capable and willing to work, and find only table scraps for their efforts, while people like Donald Trump can go swimming in diamond-encrusted swimming pools or own 25 huge mansions. It appears to most people (and to me) that those people--i.e. the super-rich or even the rich--got there not through hard work, but through manipulation of a system. At least, few of them worked very much harder than people much lower on the rungs of the ladder. And while I agree that we cannot and should not equalize everyone, there has to be some serious attention to this point: we should reward hard work, not manipulation of a byzantine financial system.

    There is a finite amount of wealth, both in absolute and time-dependent terms. That is, there is a sum total amount of wealth that can ever be produced from the planet, and a total per unit time that actually can be produced. Whether what is produced matches what can be produced is perhaps questionable, though I do not think the average middle-class worker can affect that situation very much at all.

    There is also a social contract. Fewer and fewer people are finding that they would join that contract in America, given any choice about the matter and given its current conditions of enforcement.

    Finally, money and wealth are not necessarily equivalent. But money is supposed to represent wealth. This fact can be exploited, and has been exploited historically, for the illegitimate gain of a lucky or privileged few.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should ignore these points at our great peril. Societies that have in the past (and most top-of-the-heap societies have) have dealt with increasingly bad consequences, and eventual collapse. Anyone with any grasp of history should see that many of those "increasingly bad consequences" are now manifest in our society.

  3. #303
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    How can the rule of law be dishonest? Like taxation is stealing?


    Its true because that is the factual reality

    Its dishonest because its contrary to the clear intent of the constitution

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its true because that is the factual reality

    Its dishonest because its contrary to the clear intent of the constitution
    It appears that you prematurely ended your post before you put up the verifiable evidence for your claims.
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    I think he wants to punish wealth, tax it and then send those funds into social programs.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It appears that you prematurely ended your post before you put up the verifiable evidence for your claims.
    ITs called an opinion. And why do you demand proof from others when you never supply any in support of your opinions?

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ITs called an opinion. And why do you demand proof from others when you never supply any in support of your opinions?
    Its not an opinion when you call it FACTUAL REALITY. That was your claim. I will be glad to show you the support for any statement of fact that I make.
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Just curious...what the heck would we call "trickle down economics"...that in itself is redistributing the wealth in this country.
    Men do what they have to when they want to, Great men do what they have to, even when they don't want to.

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    Just curious...what the heck would we call "trickle down economics"...that in itself is redistributing the wealth in this country.

    You seem not to get that REDistribution is the government taking wealth and giving it to voters to buy votes

    Trickle down does not require any government action whatsoever

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You seem not to get that REDistribution is the government taking wealth and giving it to voters to buy votes

    Trickle down does not require any government action whatsoever
    Well the facade that is Trickle Down involves cutting taxes on the top..well the lost revenue is off set by raising taxes on everyone else(or increasing debt as we've seen)
    That is redistributing the tax burden=redistributing money.
    Men do what they have to when they want to, Great men do what they have to, even when they don't want to.

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