View Poll Results: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

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    96 80.00%
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Thread: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

  1. #161
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
    You're delusional, wealthy pay most of the taxes??? Did some rich guy tell you that?

    I'm not sure what you consider rich but people earning between 50k and 500k pay most of our taxes. I'm talking about executives who do terrible jobs and get payed $1mill+ and get $100k bonuses as they fire people in the name of short term "cost cut" while shrinking the company and driving it back into the dirt from which the real entrepreneurs raised them. The same entrepreneurs who put everything on the line and invested everything they got back in their company and the economy. Those guys I don't mind having low taxes as they give it back.
    it's true.

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
    You're delusional, wealthy pay most of the taxes??? Did some rich guy tell you that?
    um. no. the IRS and the CBO tell us that.

    I'm not sure what you consider rich but people earning between 50k and 500k pay most of our taxes.
    Well, that is true. Of course, most of us would consider someone making $500K a rich to be wealthy. I would consider myself wealthy at that point. Mind you, I think I'm doing pretty good now.

    I'm talking about executives who do terrible jobs and get payed $1mill+ and get $100k bonuses as they fire people in the name of short term "cost cut" while shrinking the company and driving it back into the dirt from which the real entrepreneurs raised them. The same entrepreneurs who put everything on the line and invested everything they got back in their company and the economy. Those guys I don't mind having low taxes as they give it back.
    except that when they sell their businesses their income spikes for a year, putting them up into that Evil 1%.

  3. #163
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    I'll bite. What's a transfer payment?
    It's exactly what it sounds like. A program that exists solely for purpose not of producing a public good, but of transferring resources from one group in society to another. Social Security is an example. TANF is another. WIC is a third, Unemployment a fourth, and so on and so forth.

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It's exactly what it sounds like. A program that exists solely for purpose not of producing a public good, but of transferring resources from one group in society to another. Social Security is an example. TANF is another. WIC is a third, Unemployment a fourth, and so on and so forth.
    would a trust fund qualify? A tax cut for the rich? An oil depreciation allowance? Tax write offs for wining and dining for business execs? Free popcorn? Btw, the programs you mentioned do a lot of good for the public people who receive them.

    Please no trickle down answers. I am sick of social Darwinism.

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    would a trust fund qualify?.
    no
    A tax cut for the rich?
    no
    An oil depreciation allowance?
    no
    Tax write offs for wining and dining for business execs?
    no
    Free popcorn?
    only if it is provided by the government at the expense of other taxpayers

    Btw, the programs you mentioned do a lot of good for the public people who receive them
    irrelevant.

    Please no trickle down answers. I am sick of social Darwinism.
    what is a trickle down answer?
    does your employer pay you to work, or do you pay them to supervise you while you work?

  6. #166
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    would a trust fund qualify? A tax cut for the rich?
    no. redistribution requires that something first be taken and then distributed. no tax hikes or tax reductions are in and of themselves redistribution of wealth or a transfer payment.

    An oil depreciation allowance? Tax write offs for wining and dining for business execs? Free popcorn?
    no, no, and no. not taking something from someone is not the same as giving something to someone.

    Btw, the programs you mentioned do a lot of good for the public people who receive them.
    I would tend to suspect that is not the case, and that in fact the destructive incentives we have embedded in our welfare state have done our poor quite a lot of harm.

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Redistributing wealth isn't the same thing as being paid what you earn. I mean, Barack Obama isn't Robin Hood.

  8. #168
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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    listen, a rich guy ending up with more of his own money after tax day is not, nor will it ever be, wealth redistribution... it's his money. there has been no transfer... the government taking less of his money is not the same as giving the rich guy someones else's money.
    You can say that over and over. But let's face it. If we start with say, a marginal tax rate on income at $1 million of 25% and then reduce it for half the people to 15% and increase on the other half to 35% you're moving money around, even though you've only manipulated tax rates.

    Let's say two people both make at least $1.1 million. We tax income at $1 million to $1.1 million at 25% starting off. So both will pay 25%, or $25,000 for the year on that $100,000. Now let's split it, we'll tax person A at 15% and person B at 35%. Now person A pays $15,000 and person B pays $35,000. How on earth can you not consider this taking $10,000 from person B and giving it to person A?

    If we simply raised person B's tax holding person A's tax rate constant but instead gave person A an extra one-time social security payment of $10,000 you'd call that wealth redistribution, I hope? Does it really matter whether person A is getting $10,000 more in some government benefit or if person A is paying $10,000 less tax to begin with?

    (If you're slow, I'm talking about capital gains vs. ordinary income tax rates - different tax rates, same amount of income.)

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    You can say that over and over. But let's face it. If we start with say, a marginal tax rate on income at $1 million of 25% and then reduce it for half the people to 15% and increase on the other half to 35% you're moving money around, even though you've only manipulated tax rates.
    you are still missing a single requirement that makes wealth redistribution what it is... the transfer payment.

    you can argue until you are blue in the face that tax cuts are welth redistribution, and you will be wrong.. with a blue face.

    Let's say two people both make at least $1.1 million. We tax income at $1 million to $1.1 million at 25% starting off. So both will pay 25%, or $25,000 for the year. Now let's split it, we'll tax person A at 15% and person B at 35%. Now person A pays $15,000 and person B pays $35,000. How on earth can you not consider this taking $10,000 from person B and giving it to person A?
    again, favorable tax rates are not wealth redistribution.
    you can consider your example to be one of taking 10 grand less from person B... but you cannot consider it " giving 10 grand to person A"... no transfer payment was made.
    your's is just an example of one person paying less taxes than another, but certainly not wealth redistribution.

    If we simply raised person B's tax holding person A's tax rate constant but instead gave person A an extra one-time social security payment of $10,000 you'd call that wealth redistribution, I hope? Does it really matter whether person A is getting $10,000 more in some government benefit or if person A is paying $10,000 less tax to begin with?
    yes.. the minute you gave out a transfer payment, it becomes a wealth redistribution.

    and now i'm beginning to see your confusion.... you equate keeping your own money to someone giving you someone elses money.
    end result might be the same( you got mo money in he bank), but the means are vastly different.

    listen, if I shoot you in the heart and you die.. you're dead... from a fatal gunshot wound.
    now, if i stab you in the heart with a machete.. are you still dead from a fatal gunshot wound?... you are arguing that , yes.. both are fatal gunshot wounds.
    (If you're slow, I'm talking about capital gains vs. ordinary income tax rates - different tax rates, same amount of income.)
    meh, doesn't matter.... you still don't quite have the grasp on wealth redistribution yet... but we'll get there

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    Re: Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    What do you think and why would he want to do that?
    He's already told Joe the Plumber that he wants to redistribute wealth, but I think it goes beyond even that.

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