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Which best describes your view?

Is abortion ever acceptable?

  • Yes, abortion is a civil duty of women not licensed by the state to reproduce; I am Pro-Abortion.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes, abortion should be available at the mother’s discretion; I am Pro- Free Choice.

    Votes: 6 23.1%

  • Yes, abortion is acceptable with few restrictions; I am Pro-Responsible Choice.

    Votes: 11 42.3%

  • Yes, abortion should only be performed in cretin, limited circumstances; I am Anti-Abortion.

    Votes: 9 34.6%

  • No, abortion is never acceptable even if the mother is going to die; I am Pro-Life.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    26
Jerry

Jerry

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This poll is meant to replace "Where do you really stand?".

To be clear, the term “Responsible Choice” does not disclude freedom, nor does the term “Free Choice” disclude responsibility. The terms are meant only to differentiate between priority focuses and should not be interpreted as mutually exclusive.

This thread is not meant to debate abortion per-se, though I anticipate that the conversation will revert to such a debate, as most of these threads tend to do so sooner or later.

I have observed a number people make the error of claiming to be of one school of thought on abortion, when in fact they are another. I my self have made this error in claming to be pro-life in the past, yet my views are clearly anti-abortion.

I do hope that the new options can clarify your position.
 
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I am for abortion with few restrictions.
Namely, restrictions on the method of abortion, and how far into a pregnancy one should be allowed to have an abortion.

I find abortions during late term to be unreasonable, but find nothing wrong with aborting something the size of a grain of rice with no development (example, not to be meant as the only length of pregnancy I find acceptable)

Also, the reason for the abortion makes no difference, as its not my decision or anyone else's decision to make. I don't believe the government should be in the business of governing what they find is approprate "morals" in the area of "reason" for abortion, and since nobody can agree or ever will agree, on when is the proper length of pregnancy that determines "personhood", I believe it is best to govern on the side of less government restriction.
 
Caine said:
I am for abortion with few restrictions.
Namely, restrictions on the method of abortion, and how far into a pregnancy one should be allowed to have an abortion.

I find abortions during late term to be unreasonable, but find nothing wrong with aborting something the size of a grain of rice with no development (example, not to be meant as the only length of pregnancy I find acceptable)

Also, the reason for the abortion makes no difference, as its not my decision or anyone else's decision to make. I don't believe the government should be in the business of governing what they find is approprate "morals" in the area of "reason" for abortion, and since nobody can agree or ever will agree, on when is the proper length of pregnancy that determines "personhood", I believe it is best to govern on the side of less government restriction.
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Your concern lay with fetal development then, while deeming the reasoning for the abortion of an early pregnancy irrelevant?
 
You made the same mistake that you made the last time.
 
I believe in this..Caines sig...


"Abortion should be safe, legal, and unneccesary" - Bill Clinton
 
I picked: I am Pro-Responsible Choice

Abortion should be available with time restrictions and it shouldn't be able to be used as a normal form of birth control.
 
Jerry said:
Your concern lay with fetal development then, while deeming the reasoning for the abortion of an early pregnancy irrelevant?
Click to expand...

Exactly....
Thats a concise way to put my incoherent ramblings. :2razz:
 
mpg said:
You made the same mistake that you made the last time.
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How so? Did I miss yet another option?

(I'm not going to make another poll, but I would like to know if I over looked something.)
 
Caine said:
Exactly....
Thats a concise way to put my incoherent ramblings. :2razz:
Click to expand...
If I understood your previous conversations on abortion correctly, you rate the value of the unborn based on its ability to possess conciseness; do I have that about right?
 
Gibberish said:
I picked: I am Pro-Responsible Choice
Abortion should be available with time restrictions and it shouldn't be able to be used as a normal form of birth control.
Click to expand...
What time restrictions do you proffer?
 
I chose anti-abortion, but I do not believe that abortion is murder, therefore I do not expect or even prefer an overnight solution to the problem. I believe in an intensive and comprehensive program of sexual education for women strongly endorsing the use of birth control - starting in junior high school - and free and easy access to birth control for teens and underpriveleged women. I would like to see us focus our efforts on making abortion obsolete.

This is an excellent poll, by the way. Nice to see a poll without an agenda apparent in its options.
 
Pro-Responsible Choice.

I believe that abortion-on-demand-- no questions asked-- should be legal through the first trimester. I believe that abortion for reasons of the mother's physical health, or for reasons of the child's deformity, should be legal up to and including the third day after birth. (Of course, birth removes the possibility of presenting a risk to the mother's health.)

Ideally, I would like to see a system in which a spectacular standard of pre-natal and neo-natal care is offered by the State, and the legal deadline for voluntary abortion-- as well as for criminal liability for drug abuse during pregnancy-- linked to the mother's decision to apply for this pre-natal care.
 
cherokee said:
I believe in this..Caines sig...


"Abortion should be safe, legal, and unneccesary" - Bill Clinton
Click to expand...

I agree completely
 
Jerry said:
If I understood your previous conversations on abortion correctly, you rate the value of the unborn based on its ability to possess conciseness; do I have that about right?
Click to expand...

I guess you could say that.

And, since nobody will ever be able to accurately determine that time period. We must go off of development.

(And, unlike some, im not all emotional about a slushing "heartbeat")
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Pro-Responsible Choice.

I believe that abortion-on-demand-- no questions asked-- should be legal through the first trimester. I believe that abortion for reasons of the mother's physical health, or for reasons of the child's deformity, should be legal up to and including the third day after birth. (Of course, birth removes the possibility of presenting a risk to the mother's health.)

Ideally, I would like to see a system in which a spectacular standard of pre-natal and neo-natal care is offered by the State, and the legal deadline for voluntary abortion-- as well as for criminal liability for drug abuse during pregnancy-- linked to the mother's decision to apply for this pre-natal care.
Click to expand...

should be legal up to and including the third day after birth.? :shock: :shock: :shock:
infanticide?
do you want to kill everything that is not perfect? If so, than how very 3rd Reich of you
where do you draw the line as to which life is worth living after birth?
 
cherokee said:
I believe in this..Caines sig...


"Abortion should be safe, legal, and unneccesary" - Bill Clinton
Click to expand...

too bad it is a fantasy
and unrealistic goal which depends wholly upon the population in general to actually become responsible
love to see it, but it is not going to happen for a few 1000 more years
 
mixedmedia said:
This is an excellent poll, by the way. Nice to see a poll without an agenda apparent in its options.
Click to expand...
Around here that's one of the best compliments one could hope for. Thanks!
 
cherokee said:
I believe in this..Caines sig...
"Abortion should be safe, legal, and unneccesary" - Bill Clinton
Click to expand...
Ditto with birth control.
 
DeeJayH said:
should be legal up to and including the third day after birth.? :shock: :shock: :shock:
infanticide?
Click to expand...

Yes.

DeeJayH said:
do you want to kill everything that is not perfect?
Click to expand...

Nothing is ever perfect. Some things are just better than others, and some things have more potential to grow and improve.

DeeJayH said:
If so, than how very 3rd Reich of you...
Click to expand...

*shrug* I've been accused of worse. I'm not going to back away from my ideals just because they've been shared by some of the greatest monsters of the last century.

DeeJayH said:
where do you draw the line as to which life is worth living after birth?
Click to expand...

Well, I draw the line at those lives which are claimed by a responsible agency-- either a family or the State. If someone steps forward and claims a child, I will not oppose them for doing so-- and that child's life becomes protected.

As for where I'm willing to draw the line myself, and where I think the State should draw the line... I don't think cosmetic deformity is enough to justify infanticide. Any deformity which would lead to serious physical or mental disability, however, is sufficient; I wouldn't claim a limbless child or one with brain damage.
 
Gibberish said:
I picked: I am Pro-Responsible Choice

Abortion should be available with time restrictions and it shouldn't be able to be used as a normal form of birth control.
Click to expand...


exactly.

abortion as a form of birth control is nothing but murder, plain and simple.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Nothing is ever perfect. Some things are just better than others, and some things have more potential to grow and improve.
Click to expand...
true, but that would be a subjective decision
Korimyr the Rat said:
*shrug* I've been accused of worse. I'm not going to back away from my ideals just because they've been shared by some of the greatest monsters of the last century.
Click to expand...
thats reasonable, about your beliefs, but look where that led to
Korimyr the Rat said:
Well, I draw the line at those lives which are claimed by a responsible agency-- either a family or the State. If someone steps forward and claims a child, I will not oppose them for doing so-- and that child's life becomes protected.
Click to expand...
so it would be up to luck whether a child lives or dies? :shock:

Korimyr the Rat said:
As for where I'm willing to draw the line myself, and where I think the State should draw the line... I don't think cosmetic deformity is enough to justify infanticide. Any deformity which would lead to serious physical or mental disability, however, is sufficient; I wouldn't claim a limbless child or one with brain damage.Yesterday 04:58 PM.
Click to expand...
again a subjective idea which could have huge amounts of abuse
and why is it that a child with no limbs could not have a productive enjoyable life?
that limbless child could be the next Einstein
call him Matt and hope for the best
children are very resilient
 
DeeJayH said:
too bad it is a fantasy
and unrealistic goal which depends wholly upon the population in general to actually become responsible
love to see it, but it is not going to happen for a few 1000 more years
Click to expand...

Okay.... so since the "population in general will never become responsible", lets punish them for anything the prudish old religious nuts deem it necessesary.....

Sounds good to me... lets put government regulations on every form or irresponsibility up to and including forgetting to do your homework, or clean your work uniform. Maybe we could also punish people for not keeping proper maintenance on thier vehicles...... and... and..... and....
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
I don't think cosmetic deformity is enough to justify infanticide. Any deformity which would lead to serious physical or mental disability, however, is sufficient...
Click to expand...
Steven Hawking


***
How would you have Section 1 of the 14th. Amendment read?
 
Caine said:
Okay.... so since the "population in general will never become responsible", lets punish them for anything the prudish old religious nuts deem it necessesary.....

Sounds good to me... lets put government regulations on every form or irresponsibility up to and including forgetting to do your homework, or clean your work uniform. Maybe we could also punish people for not keeping proper maintenance on thier vehicles...... and... and..... and....
Click to expand...
A restriction on abortion does not restrict one's freedom, because you have no freedom to begin with.

One must first be sovereign in order to be free. Citizens are not sovereign, but are under the jurisdiction of the state, thus by definition citizens can not be free. Individually we have Liberty, not freedom, which carries with it the price of responsibility.

If the population chooses not to pay the price of liberty in the currency of responsibility, then the population will loss the state's product: liberty.

I agree with your sig under the premise that people are fulfilling their civic obligation to act responsibility, thus abortion is never necessary as an elective as no one chooses to risk a pregnancy when they are not ready to have children.

A person who acts irresponsibly automatically forfeits the related liberty.
A person who exercises a liberty obligates themselves to act responsibly in accordance.

If a person exposes themselves to a pregnancy when they are not prepared to have children, they automatically loose the state-provided liberty of their right to be secure in their body and person (women) or papers ($$$$ child support, men), or protection from "trespassing" (the child has the right to live in your home whether you like it or not)/"compulsory servitude" (you are responsible for that child's health and well being) as it relates to a pregnancy, should one occur.

A person who chooses to responsibly exercise the liberty of legally having sex with someone, but is not prepared to have children, will first have a vasectomy/tubal legation, and also be sure that their partner has no std's.
 
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Jerry said:
Steven Hawking


***
How would you have Section 1 of the 14th. Amendment read?
Click to expand...

I understand your reason for using Stephen Hawking as an example and I happen to agree with you on this issue, but I believe and I could be wrong (be sure to set me straight if I am) that Mr. Hawking's illness was not present at birth.

But, you remember that film sci-fi Gattaca and the issues it dealt with? I wouldn't want to see a future that values people simply for the physical condition of their mind and body.
 
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