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Most responsible for politicians lack of truthfulness?

Most responsible for political untruthfulness

  • Politicians and only them

    Votes: 4 18.2%

  • public, not wanting to hear thr naked truth

    Votes: 10 45.5%

  • both parties contribute about eqyally

    Votes: 8 36.4%
  • Total voters
    22
listener

listener

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Sad to say I think it is the public (most of us) for not seekung the truth whatever it is and hearing what we want to hear as in thinking there may be somethong for nothing.
 
Uninformed voters who the attack machines know will buy into the lies they produce.

That's always been my position whether it be lies from MSNBC, politicians or fox News, depending on the severity of the lie of course...

I'm never truly surprised at the lies that come from these things, I am however terrified of the people who believe them.
 
I think it's deeper than that. We have evolved into a society that hires politicians to tell us the lies we want to hear. Each campaign, we get a choice as to the type of narrative we want to be fed for the next term, and then we vote based on which narrative we want to keep hearing.
 
None of the above. The fragmentation of our news. No longer do news organizations see themselves as the muckrakers and defenders of truth. Instead, too many have found a niche as vehicles of an ideology and safe havens for those that want to hear only what they want to hear. As a result, they have become incubators of falsehood.
 
We (the electorate) definitely make it worse. When you can post hard numbers and data for somebody only to have them turn around and blatantly ignore it in order to maintain a false reality...well, you're pretty much setting the stage for continued dishonesty and distortion.

We've become a society where direct quotes are open for interpretation and nobody bothers to confirm with the quotee what their intention was. Where somebody will accept an Op-ed analysis of a statement without ever reading the statement themselves. Where you can post a transcript that clarifies an error in hearing and be told, "Yeah, but he still meant (insert erroneous version of statement)". Put simply: we refuse to hear anything that doesn't promote our own biases and hate.

So who can blame the MSM network cable channels for playing into that? It sure as hell sells well.
 
upsideguy said:
None of the above. The fragmentation of our news. No longer do news organizations see themselves as the muckrakers and defenders of truth. Instead, too many have found a niche as vehicles of an ideology and safe havens for those that want to hear only what they want to hear. As a result, they have become incubators of falsehood.
Click to expand...
Should have added none of the above. I sure agree with what you say here.
 
Both Parties lie to promote their agenda and enhance their electability. I fully reject its the publics fault for not wanting to hear the truth.
Example: The republicans had a Golden Opportunity to make this country majority Republicans and assure their control for 12 full years or beyond. They couldve done this by being truthful to the American people and taking a MODERATE approach to dealing with the debt and entitlements with shared pain, instead they allowed a small group of very rich far righters to force them to create an agenda that was of the rich and for the rich ONLY and take from everyone else.....the people were open and crying for the truth....but they saw right through the TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH remedy of the republicans and fully rejected it in their own Primary.
This election should have been and easily could have been a total rout of the Democrat Party and the death of far left progressive liberalism for many years...but Americans do not buy the answer to the far lefts kookiness is far right callousness....YOU BOTH LOSE
 
i would blame lack of fact checking on the part of the public, and a general preference for confirmation bias.

the first is improving. it's refreshing to see multiple fact checking sites which are analyzing every claim that is made. for the majority of our history, we only got the fact checking that papers chose to cover. now we see expanded fact checking even on the major news networks to some extent.

as for confirmation bias, that hasn't improved. if anything, it has gotten worse.
 
In addition, sad to say, that most voters, get their "facts" from television. Television is a horrible source for unvarnished truth.

This is the Age of Information and unfortunately, people for whatever reason - laziness, no critical thinking skills, low reading comprehension - are going to get their "news" the easiest way possible. Television "news" is infotainment and very often it is more fact like than factual. Certainly there's little depth involved.

Never before could so many people be so easily manipulated by information source. Marshall McLuhan's words were prophetic, "The medium is the message." Full on here in the Age of Information television validates what is seen and heard on television. If you are reading this you the exception to the rule. Most people don't discuss politics on internet forums. Most people do not cross check the news they see on television or hear on the radio. Most Americans rely on television as their prime "news" source and yet are constantly upset that television news sources other than their personal favorite are biased. LOL!

Both political parties are aware of the the severe limitations and of the willful ignorance of the American public. They know because they research it and study it and they measure it. They tell us incomplete truths, half truths. The misdirect information. They provide information in bits for specific purposes. They misinform and they disinform and a hell of a lot more. Pretty much most of what you see, hear and read is an illusion orchestrated by masters in the field of mass communications. Very, very little comes from government without careful planning. The most innocuous announcement from the most obscure government source at the most innocent time has a purpose and reason for its release.

Government and both political parties lead the public like a cow with a ring in its nose.
 
listener said:
Sad to say I think it is the public (most of us) for not seekung the truth whatever it is and hearing what we want to hear as in thinking there may be somethong for nothing.
Click to expand...

Ultimately all our problems, lack of government control, etc all comes down to the laziness and ineptitude of the People.

"I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe . . . Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing. Make them intelligent, and they will be vigilant; give them the means of detecting the wrong, and they will apply the remedy.”
― Daniel Webster
 
Risky Thicket said:
In addition, sad to say, that most voters, get their "facts" from television. Television is a horrible source for unvarnished truth.

This is the Age of Information and unfortunately, people for whatever reason - laziness, no critical thinking skills, low reading comprehension - are going to get their "news" the easiest way possible. Television "news" is infotainment and very often it is more fact like than factual. Certainly there's little depth involved.

Never before could so many people be so easily manipulated by information source. Marshall McLuhan's words were prophetic, "The medium is the message." Full on here in the Age of Information television validates what is seen and heard on television. If you are reading this you the exception to the rule. Most people don't discuss politics on internet forums. Most people do not cross check the news they see on television or hear on the radio. Most Americans rely on television as their prime "news" source and yet are constantly upset that television news sources other than their personal favorite are biased. LOL!

Both political parties are aware of the the severe limitations and of the willful ignorance of the American public. They know because they research it and study it and they measure it. They tell us incomplete truths, half truths. The misdirect information. They provide information in bits for specific purposes. They misinform and they disinform and a hell of a lot more. Pretty much most of what you see, hear and read is an illusion orchestrated by masters in the field of mass communications. Very, very little comes from government without careful planning. The most innocuous announcement from the most obscure government source at the most innocent time has a purpose and reason for its release.

Government and both political parties lead the public like a cow with a ring in its nose.
Click to expand...

I could not agree with this any more.

This thread has made me remember something that Bill Moyers said while he was being interviewed. He said he stopped interviewing politicians many years ago because of a seriers of particular bad interviews. He found it impossible to get hard answers and noticed a pattern of dodging that became evident. Like they were all coached be the same person, even if they were from different parties. That was the moment Bill decided that he it would be best he avoid the lot of them rather than aiding them in present their pandering generalities. If we had more reporters like Bill, we'd be a much more informed society.
 
Risky Thicket said:
In addition, sad to say, that most voters, get their "facts" from television. Television is a horrible source for unvarnished truth.

This is the Age of Information and unfortunately, people for whatever reason - laziness, no critical thinking skills, low reading comprehension - are going to get their "news" the easiest way possible. Television "news" is infotainment and very often it is more fact like than factual. Certainly there's little depth involved.

Never before could so many people be so easily manipulated by information source. Marshall McLuhan's words were prophetic, "The medium is the message." Full on here in the Age of Information television validates what is seen and heard on television. If you are reading this you the exception to the rule. Most people don't discuss politics on internet forums. Most people do not cross check the news they see on television or hear on the radio. Most Americans rely on television as their prime "news" source and yet are constantly upset that television news sources other than their personal favorite are biased. LOL!

Both political parties are aware of the the severe limitations and of the willful ignorance of the American public. They know because they research it and study it and they measure it. They tell us incomplete truths, half truths. The misdirect information. They provide information in bits for specific purposes. They misinform and they disinform and a hell of a lot more. Pretty much most of what you see, hear and read is an illusion orchestrated by masters in the field of mass communications. Very, very little comes from government without careful planning. The most innocuous announcement from the most obscure government source at the most innocent time has a purpose and reason for its release.

Government and both political parties lead the public like a cow with a ring in its nose.
Click to expand...


yup this too...well said risky
 
Political parties requiring the conformance to party policy instead of representing their districts.
 
listener said:
Sad to say I think it is the public (most of us) for not seekung the truth whatever it is and hearing what we want to hear as in thinking there may be somethong for nothing.
Click to expand...

It takes two to tango.As long as the public are stupid enough to believe lies and vote for politicians based on those lies the politicians will continue to lie.
 
If ever a thread demonstrated what this post is really about, you need only go to

"Thread: US Treasury Confirms that Al Qaeda Runs Syrian “Rebellion” by 24107"

Relate the information in the link in the thread and it becomes obvious where the problem lies. This is about the dissemination of a major falsehood, an associated timeline, and the major culprit. Take a look.
 
Middleground said:
I could not agree with this any more.

This thread has made me remember something that Bill Moyers said while he was being interviewed. He said he stopped interviewing politicians many years ago because of a seriers of particular bad interviews. He found it impossible to get hard answers and noticed a pattern of dodging that became evident. Like they were all coached be the same person, even if they were from different parties. That was the moment Bill decided that he it would be best he avoid the lot of them rather than aiding them in present their pandering generalities. If we had more reporters like Bill, we'd be a much more informed society.
Click to expand...

Moyers is old school and what a breath of fresh air he is. I hope they refer to him and use his example of real journalism in J-schools these days. There aren't many left in the US like Moyers. Honestly, I don't think broadcast networks want the likes of Moyers. He is a thinking person's newsman. He not an entertainer.

A brilliant philosopher of media was Canadian Marshall McLuhan. This discussion is going to prompt me to return to read McLuhan. It is simply amazing that so much of what he believed has now come to be.

"Politics will eventually be replaced by imagery. The politician will be only too happy to abdicate in favor of his image, because the image will be much more powerful than he could ever be." ~ McLuhan
 
Risky Thicket said:
Moyers is old school and what a breath of fresh air he is. I hope they refer to him and use his example of real journalism in J-schools these days. There aren't many left in the US like Moyers. Honestly, I don't think broadcast networks want the likes of Moyers. He is a thinking person's newsman. He not an entertainer.

A brilliant philosopher of media was Canadian Marshall McLuhan. This discussion is going to prompt me to return to read McLuhan. It is simply amazing that so much of what he believed has now come to be.

"Politics will eventually be replaced by imagery. The politician will be only too happy to abdicate in favor of his image, because the image will be much more powerful than he could ever be." ~ McLuhan
Click to expand...

Like you, I can't say enough about Bill. Today, I'm afraid journalists of his ilk are a rare breed, unfortunately.

I'm embarassed to say I know nothing about Marshall McLuhan. I'll look him up.
 
ashurbanipal said:
I think it's deeper than that. We have evolved into a society that hires politicians to tell us the lies we want to hear. Each campaign, we get a choice as to the type of narrative we want to be fed for the next term, and then we vote based on which narrative we want to keep hearing.
Click to expand...

Completely on target.
 
The one fact that should be mentioned

No matter what a politician wants to accomplish .
he or she must convince voters to vote for him or her.
That means saying what what will help them to win

the above statement
is something a politician said 60 years ago When I was a student
 
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Why are people obligated to hold politicians honest?

People who don't exercise self-control shouldn't be politicians (or anything else since they're adult-children).
 
listener said:
Sad to say I think it is the public (most of us) for not seekung the truth whatever it is and hearing what we want to hear as in thinking there may be somethong for nothing.
Click to expand...

Try to find the truth. It's out there -- but one has to sift through trash to get to it. It's carefully hidden. Both sides are responsible. It's smoke-and-mirrors. It's the price our nation pays for the right of free speech. We pay a big price for it, by the way. A big price.
 
listener said:
Sad to say I think it is the public (most of us) for not seekung the truth whatever it is and hearing what we want to hear as in thinking there may be somethong for nothing.
Click to expand...

I don't knwo about how equal they may or may not be, but without us buying into the nonsense, whatever that number is, they wouldn't get away with as often as they do.
 
Both, but the public needs be approached with finesse about policy. The fleeting passions of the masses and demagoguery that take advantage of the times need to be guarded against, and to do so, sometimes it is necessary to play alternative cards, sometimes relying upon solipsism, other times remaining as silent as possible. One wouldn't have thought JFK would remove the missiles from Turkey after the Cuban Missile Crisis, but he did so, making a silent pledge behind closed doors, so as to not alarm his public who would not want to budge an inch to the Communists, and the other political Party, already well-known for taking advantage of a situation involving Communists and the Democratic Party. Sometimes a lack of thruthfulness works in your favor. Nikita Khrushchev's metaphor about making bombs like sausages made us pay attention, and made us believe he was certainly at the helm of much more than what he really was.
 
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