View Poll Results: In today's election, politicians have more to gain than lose from lying

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    12 63.16%
  • Disagree

    5 26.32%
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    2 10.53%
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Thread: 2012 - Election Lying

  1. #11
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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    In today's election, politicians have more to gain than lose from lying.

    Agree/Disagree?
    One politician can only lie as he has nothing else. He can try to smear Romney but the one term Marxist flexible president really cannot tell the truth. Can he?

    Romney has no reason to lie. He needs to focus solely on the truth of the miserable Obama performance, other than golf, of course.

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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    "Obama is socialist/communist" seems to be a pretty effective lie.
    Do you agree that the young Obama grew up surrounded by Marxists, Communists, socialists, and progressives? Do you agree that "spreading the wealth around" was something he said we should do? Do you agree that Obama has said the wealthy should pay more because they can? How is that any different from what Radical Karl wanted?

    When Obama says he wants to fundamentally transform America what do you think he means? Does he plan to strengthen capitalism and reduce the number of federal regulations? Or is his goal Marxist European-style socialism?

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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    I agree that they generally have more to gain than lose by lying. This is largely due to the way the media typically reports on such events. For example, if Candidate Smith makes up an outrageous lie pulled straight from his ass, the media will report it as "Candidate Smith claims that Candidate Jones supported a law to kick puppies; Candidate Jones disagrees with that characterization of his position." It's very rare for the media to actually call someone out on their BS and tell their viewers that what the candidate said is not true. Even if it's blatant, outrageous, and not open to much interpretation. And on the rare occasions that the media calls them on it, the candidates can just whine that the media is being unfair to them, and make media bias the issue rather than their own dishonesty.

    Mitt Romney is probing the limits of this phenomenon with several brazen lies in his everyday stump speech, and unfortunately he doesn't seem to be paying much of a price for it. This leads me to believe that unless the media changes how it reports on these things, both parties will just get more and more bold with their lying over time.
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  4. #14
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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you agree that the young Obama grew up surrounded by Marxists, Communists, socialists, and progressives? Do you agree that "spreading the wealth around" was something he said we should do? Do you agree that Obama has said the wealthy should pay more because they can? How is that any different from what Radical Karl wanted?

    When Obama says he wants to fundamentally transform America what do you think he means? Does he plan to strengthen capitalism and reduce the number of federal regulations? Or is his goal Marxist European-style socialism?
    His goal is a mixed capitalist system with certain regulations and some degree of closing the gap between the rich and the poor, considering that gap is enormous right now.

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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    His goal is a mixed capitalist system with certain regulations and some degree of closing the gap between the rich and the poor, considering that gap is enormous right now.
    By mixed capitalist you either mean statist or socialist. What are those certain regulations? Which of the more than 80,000 regulations are the ones you mean?

    Freedom demands inequality. Most of the poor are poor for a reason. Are you arguing that we should all be less free become some have not skills, are stupid or make very bad life decisions?

    Please clarify.

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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    His goal is a mixed capitalist system with certain regulations and some degree of closing the gap between the rich and the poor, considering that gap is enormous right now.
    Misterveritis got you. The topic was lying as part of a political campaign in general and how well does it work. And you were just bagged by one who lives in lies.

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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree that they generally have more to gain than lose by lying. This is largely due to the way the media typically reports on such events. For example, if Candidate Smith makes up an outrageous lie pulled straight from his ass, the media will report it as "Candidate Smith claims that Candidate Jones supported a law to kick puppies; Candidate Jones disagrees with that characterization of his position." It's very rare for the media to actually call someone out on their BS and tell their viewers that what the candidate said is not true. Even if it's blatant, outrageous, and not open to much interpretation. And on the rare occasions that the media calls them on it, the candidates can just whine that the media is being unfair to them, and make media bias the issue rather than their own dishonesty.
    ...
    The media is a for profit business. It takes less investment to report: He said …, But then The other one said … .You also say out of trouble doing it this way. In addition most people like to watch a fight rather than a debate where the viewers have to have informed themselves using rational thought. (A rational thought is the type of unbiased thinking an engineer might do in a lab.)

  8. #18
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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Stretching the truth, yes. Once you frame the debate, and get enough people to buy into that framing, you are golden.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The public is stupid, which is really sad since we live in the information age. So yes lying can be rather helpful.
    Actually, the information age can contribute to ignorance. The amount of information becomes so intense that what is needed is proper framing, a proper reference...someone to sort through the information and to tell us how to view reality.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: 2012 - Election Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Misterveritis got you. The topic was lying as part of a political campaign in general and how well does it work. And you were just bagged by one who lives in lies.
    LOL. I do agree that I made his position untenable. Just by telling the truth. I know how uncomfortable that can seem so one unaccustomed to it.

    You could try it a few times. And if you and I disagree it is not a very big deal.

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