View Poll Results: Should we pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control?

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Thread: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It might not be a right, but it's the law that people must buy health insurance and insurance companies can no longer discriminate against those with pre-existing conditions.

    Inalienable: unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor: "inalienable human rights".

    A woman's reproductive organs are inalienable and self evident and the constitution protects inalienable rights...such as the inalienable right to reproduce or not reproduce. . Women are born with reproductive organs which qualifies them as having a pre-existing condition that private insurance companies can no longer discriminate against.


    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness = birth control


    so any private insurance company that is a part of the insurance exchange will have to offer birth control coverage or get the crap sued out them. You don't have to buy or use the coverage but it must be offered to those who want it.
    Are a woman's reproductive organs really inalienable?
    They cannot work as intended without assistance from an outside source, which means they cannot reproduce inalienably... and then their is the whole matter of hysterectomy's, again hardly inalienable ! I can see this being a whole other thread, but just to be clear here while I do believe that responsible adults will take care of their own birth control it is the irresponsible and careless that are the burden upon any health care system thta will not change no matter who pays for what which should be the focus of any reform.
    The question is more important than the answer!

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Really Peter? So it was earlier than I thought? Ok, cool. My history on this needs some revise. Its cool though.

    Aka, you want the same system as Cpwill. Can't pay = You Die.
    More hyperbole, really?

  3. #83
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So is having people pay for your brain surgery. And your Chemo. And your Viagra. And your broken bone settings.

    Or are we selectively applying standards?

    Internally inconsistent logic eh?
    I didn't even mention that stuff. Why would it be different?

  4. #84
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChunkySalsa View Post
    That's a statement vague to the point of worthlessness. Is the government helping to pay for children to be born, go to school, be looked after health and human services, and various other programs the wrong you're speaking about? Or is the attitude of "**** you, I want to maximize the negative consequences of performing actions I disapprove of, even if I have to cut off my nose to spite my face" the wrong you're speaking about?
    I'm not doing anything here, so this is not on me. You take actions and they have results. Deal with life. Is life really so cruel you people really can't deal with the results of your actions? There is certain amount of weakness in that which is also not on me. If you need parents than don't leave home. Seems pretty simple, lol.

    My nose on the other hand will be fine. I can deal with life and I have proven that over and over again.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-04-12 at 08:22 AM.

  5. #85
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Yes, we should. I'm in favor of single-payer health care.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  6. #86
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Yes, we should. I'm in favor of single-payer health care.
    Funnily enough though, Birth Control Pills are not covered in Canada or Britain.

    Far as I know anyway, they're not very expensive here though, then again we're not paying massive premiums like you do, we're paying for it in taxes which are far less then your premiums anyway... and that's what's important about this entire thing is that not every woman in America is going to get delivered birth control to their house at tax payers expense... they will get it upon request of their HMO if they sign up and pay their premiums...

    Not exactly free is it

    But we'll let the Conservatives in this thread continue to ignore that.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Libertarians think those people should just confirm because they want them to. That's pretty stupid considering human nature.
    Actually no. I expect people to be poor, rich, and in between. I expect people will do stupid things and I expect people will do start things. I expect people to be people.

    One last thing, I don't care if you want to play the drama card or if you want to act like we are out to kill people. None of the crap you said about me is true except being wrong on my account of two places in Europe at the time.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-04-12 at 08:33 AM.

  8. #88
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, it can still be a positive right. Just not innate is all. I obviously don't like enacting of positive rights as I find them to a violation of liberty, but its been done so many times now. I will still fight against it obviously and I will never see it as a right, but that is not something you care about though.
    Natural rights are viewed as negative rights. Women's sex is a natural right, they are born with it and that is why it is inalienable.

    There is still things that quality under inalienable, sorry.
    That was uncomprehensible, sorry.

    You are confusing much here. That only would only mean no one can act on her and she can not use her organs to kill another. :P Remember the right to your body is a negative right like all other innate rights.
    Read the definition again and show me where it says anything about killing or using sex organs to kill.

    Inalienable: unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor: "inalienable human rights".


    No, we don't have a right to not be discriminated against and ownership by its very definition allows this by giving control access to the property owner.
    Actually, there is a whole body of legislative law that protects against various forms of discrimination.

    Yes, I know what it says. Now please take what I say to heart. I'm only trying to be helpful. You are mistaken. Its ok to be wrong, so don't worry. I was wrong on the Britain health care thing and I'm not mad about it. Its cool.
    No, I think it is definitely you that's mistaken.

    Having people provide for your birth control is a violation of their liberty. cool:
    Are you talking to the empty chair again? Because you don't seem to have read or understood a thing that I or anyone else has said on this thread about insurance. Do you not understand how group insurance works, is that it?


    I'm sorry but that is forcing action on others for your rights to exist. Its simply does not work that way.
    Well thats nice since no one is forcing you to buy birthcontrol coverage. On the same token, you don't have the right to force others from not buying it if they want or need it.

    I get the strong impression that you haven't a clue what an "insurance exchange" is or how "group insurance" works or about "spreading risk" or anything. And if you dont understand that then you sure as hell don't understand what the Affordable Healthcare Act is or does or what we're even talking about.

  9. #89
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    The notion of self interest seems to be sacrificed for ideological purity.
    Ok, one last thing. Government is not supposed to be interested in your self interest, but only if you are not having your rights violated by other people. I'm sorry you need a baby sitter in your life and maybe you should have never left home if that is the case or hell the damn crib that you crapped your pants in and that isn't my problem. Again, I'm sorry, its not my problem. If you need help I give 9%(on average) of my salary to charities of my choosing and maybe one day I will pick whatever you think I should. Its cool, completely cool if you can't move forward in life. Completely cool, but seriously its not my problem. Stop putting everything on the backs of your fellow citizens. People need to grow up and look our their window and see that life is not fair.

    I don't think you realize that it is a good thing to put self interest behind? I will always put others before myself and maybe you should too. Instead of preaching to me about how you need my money for these people to get whatever you think they should have, help them get it. I'm frankly tired of not seeing liberals out here helping people get healthcare and coming here and them all being around in a circle talking about universal healthcare. Get your ****ing ass out here helping them!

    You want to say I don't care? **** you. I care more than you ever could.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-04-12 at 08:49 AM.

  10. #90
    Educator Schutzengel's Avatar
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Do you know how health insurance works? That might be a good place to start before asking the wrong question.
    OK ... should we force insurance companies to pay for contraception?

    In a pure business model every insurance company SHOULD cover contraception if they cover L&D just from a cost/benefit point of view...

    But some insurance companies and some that are self-insured (Like the catholic church) have what they believe to be reasons not to... and in the case of the later they are religous reasons and covered exclusively by the first amendment
    History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid. - Ike

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