View Poll Results: Should we pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control?

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Thread: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

  1. #611
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Now you know that that is not why it's a popular mandate, it's a lifestyle "medication" it's basic hormonal therapy but OPTIONAL, it's an elective treatment which is why it wasn't universally covered by the industry. As I will restate and you haven't attempted to counter, when it was deemed medically necessary by a doctor companies would cover it as a general rule, so why then other than a niche political stunt would it need to be mandated? Unless it's to buy off a segment of the voters, which is the WORST type of policy.
    Again: because it's good public policy, and provides useful health benefits to women, and lots of them (lots of women that is). I can turn this around on you compeletely - the only reason this is remotely contentious is because certain segments of the population have issues with sex. We'd never have this argument about, say, prescription painkillers. They are also frequently not medically necessary, but I doubt there's a hospital in the country that doesn't have them, and I doubt there's an insurance program that doesn't cover them (possibly with a co-pay of course).

    As a practical matter this is a no-brainer:

    1) Increasing access to birth control reduces unwanted pregnancies, which saves everyone money and reduces the likelihood of abortions.

    2) The other health concerns dealt with by birth control pills range from uncomfortable (menstrual cramps) to potentially very serious (endometriosis).

    What possible reason is there not to provide remedies to these things?

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Because birth control isn't necessary to preserve health or life, which is what policies are supposed to pay for. This equates to people wanting "freebies" mandated.
    No...I don't think you're giving proper credit to how important it is for women to be able to control when they can or can't get pregnant. There's massive benefits to the woman as well as society. There's a lot of people that shouldn't have children when they do and would benefit from waiting. the reality is...people are gonna bang! We're humans.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    No...I don't think you're giving proper credit to how important it is for women to be able to control when they can or can't get pregnant. There's massive benefits to the woman as well as society. There's a lot of people that shouldn't have children when they do and would benefit from waiting. the reality is...people are gonna bang! We're humans.
    So babies are a problem now? Please feel free to give a detailed explanation, considering that's how the species has continued on for millions of years.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Sorry but cheaper means cheaper. Like most preventative medicine is. It is not rocket science.
    It's not cheaper in the aggregate, don't try to bull**** me.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Again: because it's good public policy, and provides useful health benefits to women, and lots of them (lots of women that is). I can turn this around on you compeletely - the only reason this is remotely contentious is because certain segments of the population have issues with sex. We'd never have this argument about, say, prescription painkillers. They are also frequently not medically necessary, but I doubt there's a hospital in the country that doesn't have them, and I doubt there's an insurance program that doesn't cover them (possibly with a co-pay of course).

    As a practical matter this is a no-brainer:

    1) Increasing access to birth control reduces unwanted pregnancies, which saves everyone money and reduces the likelihood of abortions.

    2) The other health concerns dealt with by birth control pills range from uncomfortable (menstrual cramps) to potentially very serious (endometriosis).

    What possible reason is there not to provide remedies to these things?
    It's obviously not a no brainer because you haven't countered the aggregate argument, just said "it's cheaper". Recurring costs without medical benefit are not what insurance is about, insurance isn't about funding a lifestyle which is what BC typically is used for. You cannot with a straight face state that millions of women using a recurring expense montly is going to save money, that is completely impossible.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    So babies are a problem now? Please feel free to give a detailed explanation, considering that's how the species has continued on for millions of years.
    Where did I say that people should no longer have children? I stated the importance of control...as in having a child with someone you will spend the rest of your life with, having a child at an age where you're established to support them, having a child in good economic times instead of in say...a time of high unemployment and uncertainty.

    The reality is young folk have sex...but based on realities of the world...the increased importance of education or the fact that coming out of high school makes it tough to support yourself much less a family....birthcontrol is a pretty darn effective way of giving that control to women.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Where did I say that people should no longer have children? I stated the importance of control...as in having a child with someone you will spend the rest of your life with, having a child at an age where you're established to support them, having a child in good economic times instead of in say...a time of high unemployment and uncertainty.

    The reality is young folk have sex...but based on realities of the world...the increased importance of education or the fact that coming out of high school makes it tough to support yourself much less a family....birthcontrol is a pretty darn effective way of giving that control to women.
    Birth control = less or no babies, you are the one saying "birth control is a benefit to society", well guess what, we are in a negative birth period in U.S. history right now, IOW we are not replacing ourselves at a sufficient rate. I don't think that it's my business to tell people whether or not they should start a family but I am NOT responsible for the direction they choose, nor for funding it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    It's obviously not a no brainer because you haven't countered the aggregate argument, just said "it's cheaper". Recurring costs without medical benefit are not what insurance is about, insurance isn't about funding a lifestyle which is what BC typically is used for. You cannot with a straight face state that millions of women using a recurring expense montly is going to save money, that is completely impossible.
    1) It's not completely impossible, although the existing data is admittedly murky. There have been a number of studies done, and they've concluded, generally, that the increase in preventative costs may or may not be offset by the decrease in materinity expenses (it depends, apparently, on the specific plan). I italicized maternity costs, because so far as I can tell no one has taken the further step of looking into cost savings related to having unwanted chiildren running around. I'm sure any given insurer would rather pay for the costs to prevent pregnancy rather than pay for the resultant child until he/she turns 18. The extra $18-20/patient is a pretty good deal compared to paying for a ****-ton of new dependents.

    2) You're ignoring the other arguments that I've made that have nothing to do with cost (e.g. reducing abortion rates, providing medical care for various women's heallth issues).

    3) Birth control isn't "typically" used for any one thing. More than half of all women (58% according to the Guttmacher institute) who use birth control use it at least partially for non-pregnancy issues. That number rises to a staggering 90% for teenage girls (who, in general, use it mostly if not exclusively for non-pregnancy related reasons).

    Conclusion: The argument that this is about supporting a lifestyle choice is specious at best.
    Last edited by Aderleth; 09-06-12 at 06:47 PM.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Actually, it was the other way around. The Catholic bishops have been trying to assert themselves into the political arena for years in order to try and remain relevant in the modern age. It was the Bishops who were attempting to force the government to change it's policy of separation of church and state and to force private insurance companys to stop offering birth control not only for Catholic hospital employees but for any business in the private sector.

    It's not the public that will be paying for birth control pills, it's the insurance companys.
    Riiiiight. THATS why this issue came up...this whole 'war against women'...and NOT because the administration attempted to force them to change.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    The government certainly has the right to enforce uniform standards for how health insurance operates to the extent that their are legitimate public health concerns in place. That's certainly the case here. There are any number of contexts in which genuine issues of public policty trump religious dogma. This is one such issue. The CHA would exempt not just actual churches, but Catholic run hospitals from the birth control mandate. This creates very real health concerns for any woman who relies on such services.
    Actually they DONT. Your OPINION may be that they should. They dont. But...are you STILL missing the part where Ms Fluke ADMITTED she was not denied coverage and DID in fact receive medically indicated birth control?

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