View Poll Results: Should we pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control?

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  • Yes

    28 35.90%
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    50 64.10%
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Thread: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

  1. #461
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    But again, I doubt very much you'd concede religious freedom "includes" much of anything at all. For example, if a town banned all meetings on Sunday mornings for "traffic purposes," I'm sure you'd say it's a law of general applicability and religion should get no special exception. After all, the Kiwanis Club can't meet, either.
    It includes your individual right to believe whatever the hell ridiculous nonsense you want, so long as you don't push it on anyone else. That is the sum total of religious freedom.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It includes your individual right to believe whatever the hell ridiculous nonsense you want, so long as you don't push it on anyone else. That is the sum total of religious freedom.
    Someone needs to explain "free exercise thereof" to you, I guess. In any case, that's not a denial, so I suspect I'm right.
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Someone needs to explain "free exercise thereof" to you, I guess. In any case, that's not a denial, so I suspect I'm right.
    Free exercise, so long as it doesn't affect others. You can't point to your religion and then discriminate against blacks or women or gays. It doesn't mean you get to push your beliefs on others or harm others. Free exercise doesn't mean you get to go out and be an asshole.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Free exercise, so long as it doesn't affect others.
    It doesn't "affect" anyone, any more than my refusal to pay your mortgage affects your living situation.

    You can try to dress it up any way you like, but that's a fact, and it will remain true no matter what you say, rabidly anti-religious filter or no.
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It doesn't "affect" anyone, any more than my refusal to pay your mortgage affects your living situation.

    You can try to dress it up any way you like, but that's a fact, and it will remain true no matter what you say, rabidly anti-religious filter or no.
    You have no obligation to pay my mortgage, don't be ridiculous. In fact, if, for some reason, the employer decided to pay someone's mortgage as a part of their compensation package, the employer would not be able to do so only under the condition that they get to control what the employee does in their own house.

    The employer, however, has chosen to pay for insurance as part of employee compensation. Therefore, they pay for the insurance as it's legally mandated. If they don't like it, they can just opt not to pay for insurance at all, maybe just give the employees what it would have cost them and let employees decide what insurance packages they want to purchase on their own.
    Being delusional doesn't give you the right to control other people's lives. Maybe the reason many people are rabidly anti-religious is because of cases like this, where the religious are being blatantly fricking idiots.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #466
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You have no obligation to pay my mortgage, don't be ridiculous. In fact, if, for some reason, the employer decided to pay someone's mortgage as a part of their compensation package, the employer would not be able to do so only under the condition that they get to control what the employee does in their own house.

    The employer, however, has chosen to pay for insurance as part of employee compensation. Therefore, they pay for the insurance as it's legally mandated. If they don't like it, they can just opt not to pay for insurance at all, maybe just give the employees what it would have cost them and let employees decide what insurance packages they want to purchase on their own.
    Being delusional doesn't give you the right to control other people's lives. Maybe the reason many people are rabidly anti-religious is because of cases like this, where the religious are being blatantly fricking idiots.
    The employer has no obligation to provide anything specific as compensation; the employee decides if the compensation is worth it.

    The only way the employer "discriminates" or "forces" anyone to do anything is by firing an employee for obtaining birth control on their own. No one does this. Your "argument" is just plain stupid and runs counter to anything resembling "rationality," which you claim to hold dear.

    So no, you're wrong, and you will remain wrong every single additional time you make this pseudo-argument. As you say, "deal with it." If you choose to make the "argument again," refer to this post. It will save us both time.
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    What quantifies as "maintenance meds?"
    They are medications that someone needs to be on to maintain health due to a condition. Blood pressure medications, cholesterol medications, blood sugar medications and others would be considered maintenance medications. Essentially, they are things that someone needs to take to stay in good health.
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    They are medications that someone needs to be on to maintain health due to a condition. Blood pressure medications, cholesterol medications, blood sugar medications and others would be considered maintenance medications. Essentially, they are things that someone needs to take to stay in good health.
    So why doesn't BC qualify as such? You do know it's much more than a pill to prevent pregnancy.
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    It's a lot more than just birth control.
    But that's what we're discussing in this thread, correct?
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    So why doesn't BC qualify as such? You do know it's much more than a pill to prevent pregnancy.
    I do, in the vast majority of cases it is used to prevent pregnancy but it can also be used to regulate menses or treat acne (which isn't used often at all). Birth control for contraceptive purposes is not needed for health, it's an elective medication that doesn't serve a therapeutic purpose just like Viagra or eye lash lengtheners.
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