View Poll Results: Should we pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control?

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  • Yes

    28 35.90%
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    50 64.10%
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Thread: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

  1. #451
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I'm not going to agree because religion deserves no special treatment.
    Yes, I said you weren't going to agree, because I know you have absolutely not one whit of respect for religious freedom; not sure why you feel the need to tell me something I already stated I know.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    if that were the case, you would think that insurance companies would be able to negotiate with pharmaceutical manufacturers, logical, yes? the negotiate with hospitals, why not drug makers?
    No, that's not how it works. The drug makers incur alot of expense on R&D, and come up with ever-new drugs, based on public demand, and the public wants all the new drugs, because he/she doesn't have to pay for them. Oftentimes, these new drugs serve the same purpose as the old drugs, which are inexpensive, but people are suckers for a TV ad, and are always looking for the newest and most effective drug to cure what ails them.

    If people had to pay for their own drugs, they would shop around and price compare, and get the best value for their money. They don't have to do that, and the insurance company has no personal vested interest in containing costs, as long as they keep getting their monthly premium. That is the primary problem. Those who use health care do not have to be conscious of how much health care costs. If they did, they would try to keep costs down by buying affordable drugs and taking care of their own health.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  3. #453
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    No, that's not how it works. The drug makers incur alot of expense on R&D, and come up with ever-new drugs, based on public demand, and the public wants all the new drugs, because he/she doesn't have to pay for them. Oftentimes, these new drugs serve the same purpose as the old drugs, which are inexpensive, but people are suckers for a TV ad, and are always looking for the newest and most effective drug to cure what ails them.

    If people had to pay for their own drugs, they would shop around and price compare, and get the best value for their money. They don't have to do that, and the insurance company has no personal vested interest in containing costs, as long as they keep getting their monthly premium. That is the primary problem. Those who use health care do not have to be conscious of how much health care costs. If they did, they would try to keep costs down by buying affordable drugs and taking care of their own health.
    i'll agree to the extent that there are people out there who are suckers for a slick tv ad, but i fail to see why they wouldnt negotiate and try to get a better price...

  4. #454
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    i'll agree to the extent that there are people out there who are suckers for a slick tv ad, but i fail to see why they wouldnt negotiate and try to get a better price...
    Because they don't need to get a better price. The person whose money is at stake is left out of the equation.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  5. #455
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    You're thinking too short term. Market forces work when people have to be cognitive of their costs. The reason so many people can't afford health care is because congressional mandates in the 70's took the consumer out of the equation, and handed the ball to insurance companies and pharmaceutical manufacturers.
    Half right. We are in a period of insurer shrinkage right now and have been since the seventies due to the congressional mandates, but even more than that, there has been an overreach in medicine since the early 1900s but no larger period since 1970-present. We went from iirc 216 major providers to less than 120 between 1977 to 2004, and from what I understand that number shrank again since.....but that was my last data on the industry state of the market.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yes, I said you weren't going to agree, because I know you have absolutely not one whit of respect for religious freedom; not sure why you feel the need to tell me something I already stated I know.
    Religious freedom does not include the right to discriminate. Try again.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    NOBODY'S PAYING FOR ****ING SANDRA ****ING FLUKES ****ING CONTRACEPTION...

    HOLY JESUS.

    There's nothing wrong with mandating Medical Insurance Companies to pay for contraception the same way they would pay for any other basic drugs that are nessecary for people to have, some of these HMO's cover Viagra for gods sake, so why not contraceptive pills?

    Doing such a thing, expanding access to contraceptives is a massive net benefit to the economy as it reduces unwanted pregnancies, reduces the need for abortions which is a net positive for the medical insurance companies obviously abortion procedures cost more than a measly pill.

    This whole idea that everyone pays for Sandra Flukes Contraceptives is such a fallacy it's unbelievable.
    If Sandra Fluke isn't getting service she requires from her insurance company, then she needs to find another company that will serve her better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #458
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    By failing to buy you an automobile, have I banned you from owning one?
    No, of course not, but health insurance is a part of most people's compensation package, it's a component of their pay. It's not a gift that is given to them. Further, most employees pay some portion of their insurance costs through their checks. So not only is the employer providing sub-standard compensation, they are essentially saying to the employee "here, you can have this insurance that may not satisfy your needs, you have to pay for it, but I'm going to keep you from getting things you might want because I have a stick up my ass".
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, of course not, but health insurance is a part of most people's compensation package, it's a component of their pay. It's not a gift that is given to them. Further, most employees pay some portion of their insurance costs through their checks. So not only is the employer providing sub-standard compensation, they are essentially saying to the employee "here, you can have this insurance that may not satisfy your needs, you have to pay for it, but I'm going to keep you from getting things you might want because I have a stick up my ass".
    The employee took the job knowing what the compensation package was.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Religious freedom does not include the right to discriminate. Try again.
    Another silly strawman. There's no discrimination. If that's all you've got, then you tacitly admit you've got nothing.

    But again, I doubt very much you'd concede religious freedom "includes" much of anything at all. For example, if a town banned all meetings on Sunday mornings for "traffic purposes," I'm sure you'd say it's a law of general applicability and religion should get no special exception. After all, the Kiwanis Club can't meet, either.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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