View Poll Results: Should we pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control?

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    28 35.90%
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    50 64.10%
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Thread: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

  1. #301
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Harry-
    How many do you know who can afford over the counter allergy meds but get prescription meds because they are covered by insurance?
    How many get eye exams paid for?

    This isn't about finding a way for the woman to pay for this herself, that question has been answered for approx 50% of the women in this country. No more than snot meds or eye exams. poor deflection. Easy coverage to offer.

    Considering it helps a female worker plan her career and family it would seem a win for everyone, all for 2 hours of wages a month for both femalw worker and the boss if no discount can be arranged.
    There is no proof of your claim though.
    Fact check even says that the results of such legislation are murky.

    And considering the more relevant context behind this, it's unlikely that this mandate will reduce unwanted pregnancies to any real degree because, this "free" bc, mostly effects middle and upper income women, who can already afford it and are not reproducing at societal replacement level.

    FactCheck.org : Cloudy Contraception Costs
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  2. #302
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I've heard other people say that the point of insurance companies is to make money, and if providing BC is cheaper than paying for birth and 18 years of health care, then BC wins.

    Cynical, I know.
    Most of the people who said it's just about money never worked in the industry. Health insurance is one of the smallest margin industries, they show high dollar earnings but profit margins are low, only 6% versus +8% to consider a business economically viable. I don't think BC is the money saver everyone thinks it is, breast exams are cheaper than cancer and a once a year maximum occurance, much like other cancer screenings yet cancer is incredibly expensive to pay out. 18 years, now 26, of a child's care is not going to be expensive as they don't suffer a lot of critical illnesses but rather the yearly physical, sniffles, colds, etc. and more often than not will cost less on the year than premiums taken in..........but birth control mandates on the other hand mean a monthly claim.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #303
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Ahhh, the important question. Yes, he is as responsible, but what guarantee do we have that the two will ever have contact again, or that the guy won't be a grade A dirtbag and shirk responsibility. Some states don't allow for forced DNA testing and if she went home with him for one night his attorney would go very hostile and attack her entire sexual history. Not saying it's right mind you but reality.
    I wonder if HER lawyer could do the same? So this sounds like the woman actually is MORE responsible for the unwanted pregnancy. I think that whether or not THEY (the couple) have contact again is irrelevant, but if she has the child and tries to deny visitation to it, that should not be allowed if he is supporting it, but now I'm getting off topic.

    All states should all allow mandatory DNA testing when it comes to support of children, IMO.

  4. #304
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    So you WERE talking about in the past.
    Of course I was. What implies I said I wasn't?

    Your timeline did not show that there were more unwanted children now than in the past.
    Again, it was about it being a problem.

    As for pregnancies:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/health/13mothers.html

    No one said all women would get pregnant without this kind of program.
    Then why the need to cover all women?

    It just allows easier access
    "Easier access" = making someone else pay for it. That's not a "just." That's an onus.

    and may help prevent some unwanted pregnancies
    How many? A few? A dozen? Millions? If you're doing a cost/benefit analysis of the government forcing insurers to do this, then you need to specify.

    which in the long run saves money when some woman may get pregnant, have to quit her job and go on public assistance.
    1) You can't know that until you specify, and

    2) Saving money doesn't necessarily justify anything.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 09-04-12 at 08:35 PM.
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  5. #305
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think both should share equal responsibility when it comes to preventing pregnancy and child-rearing.
    Why, when it is the woman who can get pregnant, and who has the power to get an abortion, without consent and agreement of the father? This is wholly unfair to men.
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I dunno Harshaw, why should anyone take you seriously? You add nothing to the discussion.
    No one forced you to address me. Yet, you did anyway.
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  7. #307
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Most of the people who said it's just about money never worked in the industry. Health insurance is one of the smallest margin industries, they show high dollar earnings but profit margins are low, only 6% versus +8% to consider a business economically viable. I don't think BC is the money saver everyone thinks it is, breast exams are cheaper than cancer and a once a year maximum occurance, much like other cancer screenings yet cancer is incredibly expensive to pay out. 18 years, now 26, of a child's care is not going to be expensive as they don't suffer a lot of critical illnesses but rather the yearly physical, sniffles, colds, etc. and more often than not will cost less on the year than premiums taken in..........but birth control mandates on the other hand mean a monthly claim.
    Oh, I don't doubt you, but I have heard the money thing mentioned often. And while I believe there is some truth to it... can't do anything at a loss if you close shop, after all... I don't believe that companies are that heartless.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  8. #308
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I wonder if HER lawyer could do the same?
    Well sure, the lawyer can paint the guy as jerk and would have a great case, the perception of how many partners she may have had in the timeframe is the issue. And if there is no right to compulsory testing the guy will walk away without a scratch. I've seen that happen to a couple of friends personally.
    So this sounds like the woman actually is MORE responsible for the unwanted pregnancy. I think that whether or not THEY (the couple) have contact again is irrelevant, but if she has the child and tries to deny visitation to it, that should not be allowed if he is supporting it, but now I'm getting off topic.
    It takes two to tango. The problem comes from the unwanted portion of it, many times women do bear the brunt of that, it's not fair but it works out that way many times.

    All states should all allow mandatory DNA testing when it comes to support of children, IMO.
    I agree, but they have to see it that way in their legislatures, vote for it, and pass it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Of course I was. What implies I said I wasn't?



    Again, it was about it being a problem.

    As for pregnancies:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/health/13mothers.html



    When why the need to cover all women.
    I will say that back in the old days, men were forced to marry women who they impregnated a lot of times. Other times there were adoptions or back alley abortions that were much easier to hide. I don't think people are any more stupid or irresponsible than they have always been, and I certainly don't think that applies to all women, only a small portion of men and women. And, there are so many other factors at play here that it could not be proven that "people are more irresponsible now" is the cause of a rise in unwanted pregnancies. Some women DO choose to remain single.

    "Easier access" = making someone else pay for it. That's not a "just." That's an onus.
    Maybe there could be things like income restriction guidelines. Some people are JUST above the poverty line (which is EXTREMELY low compared to costs of living IMO), and yes an extra $50 to $250 a month for BC could hurt them financially.


    How many? A few? A dozen? Millions? If you're doing a cost/benefit analysis of the government forcing insurers to do this, then you need to specify.
    LOL! We'll thankfully I'm not because I'm pretty weak in math skills.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Why, when it is the woman who can get pregnant, and who has the power to get an abortion, without consent and agreement of the father? This is wholly unfair to men.
    Well, that is why he should take an interest in preventing a pregnancy too.

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