View Poll Results: Should we pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control?

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Thread: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Who's liberty is threatened by women having birth control?
    no ones' until you force them to provide it to her.

    And then we have the whole religious liberty thing.

    As if priests are going to be forced to hand out bread, wine and birth control during mass.
    nope, but when you force someone to purchase and provide something that is in direct contradiction to their most deeply held religious convictions (such as the sanctity of life), you are indeed seeking to force them to violate their faith.

    We're talking about HMO's here champ.
    Oh my bad, I thought that the threat title marked it as being about the controversy in which sandra fluke starred, wherein Obamacare forced Catholic providers and employers to violate the tenets of their faith. Please, carry on .

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Natural rights are viewed as negative rights. Women's sex is a natural right, they are born with it and that is why it is inalienable.

    That was uncomprehensible, sorry.

    Read the definition again and show me where it says anything about killing or using sex organs to kill.

    Inalienable: unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor: "inalienable human rights".


    Actually, there is a whole body of legislative law that protects against various forms of discrimination.

    No, I think it is definitely you that's mistaken.

    Are you talking to the empty chair again? Because you don't seem to have read or understood a thing that I or anyone else has said on this thread about insurance. Do you not understand how group insurance works, is that it?


    Well thats nice since no one is forcing you to buy birthcontrol coverage. On the same token, you don't have the right to force others from not buying it if they want or need it.

    I get the strong impression that you haven't a clue what an "insurance exchange" is or how "group insurance" works or about "spreading risk" or anything. And if you dont understand that then you sure as hell don't understand what the Affordable Healthcare Act is or does or what we're even talking about.

    *trolling the Moot
    inalienable - impossible to be taken away ... sex is inalienable? tell that to the LGBT community
    Last edited by Schutzengel; 09-04-12 at 08:57 AM.
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    nope, but when you force someone to purchase and provide something that is in direct contradiction to their most deeply held religious convictions (such as the sanctity of life), you are indeed seeking to force them to violate their faith.
    I suppose.


  4. #94
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Authoritative Social Conservatism. That and anti-slut.
    And what is Authoritative Social Conservatism? I'll accept the anti-slut qualifier, but I would say pro-prudence, in the original and positive meaning of the word, which is to make good choices based on known consequences.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I suppose.
    Feel free to mock them. It's a country with the freedom to do so, after all. It is also a country where we recognize their right to have the beliefs you mock, and those two rights are entertwined.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Natural rights are viewed as negative rights. Women's sex is a natural right, they are born with it and that is why it is inalienable.
    Her sex? You mean her ability to have sex? Well sure, but she can't force people to make that possible? That is violation of their rights. If its just gender in general. That is just gender. That is just stupid to think changes anything. You still can't force people to act to maintain your health. I should not have to explain to you what the word "life" mean in that context here to someone that supposedly knows this subject. If you bring this up again though, I will have no choice but to do it.

    That was uncomprehensible, sorry.
    You are attaching whatever you feel like as an inalienable right and then getting mad at me because I reject it nicely. You are acting like I don't know what I'm talking about but everything you are saying is build on self interest and using other people.

    Read the definition again and show me where it says anything about killing or using sex organs to kill.
    You can't use your body to violate the body of another. Simple yes? Read the ideas behind it again. My conclusion is correct.

    Inalienable: unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor: "inalienable human rights".
    Thank you. Now do you understand how what I said above falls under that?

    Actually, there is a whole body of legislative law that protects against various forms of discrimination.
    I know, but they are positive rights and a violation of property rights

    No, I think it is definitely you that's mistaken.
    You can think whatever you want. That is your right.

    Are you talking to the empty chair again? Because you don't seem to have read or understood a thing that I or anyone else has said on this thread about insurance. Do you not understand how group insurance works, is that it?
    Is that the defense to using other people to provide you what you want and then call it an inalienable right? Ignorance is OK here, you know.

    Well thats nice since no one is forcing you to buy birthcontrol coverage. On the same token, you don't have the right to force others from not buying it if they want or need it.
    I never said they were. Lets try to be honest, ok? You are forcing property owners to provide you a service you want. Ownership is the right and ability to control something. In order to get your birth control pills you must make them do what you want. Birth control pills is not an innate right, but a human creation. You can not do that.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-04-12 at 09:11 AM.

  7. #97
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disputatious71 View Post
    Are a woman's reproductive organs really inalienable?
    They cannot work as intended without assistance from an outside source, which means they cannot reproduce inalienably... and then their is the whole matter of hysterectomy's, again hardly inalienable ! I can see this being a whole other thread, but just to be clear here while I do believe that responsible adults will take care of their own birth control it is the irresponsible and careless that are the burden upon any health care system thta will not change no matter who pays for what which should be the focus of any reform.
    Gender is inalienable because you do not get to chose your sex when you are born. It is by definition a pre-existing condition. Hysterectomys do not change a woman's sex anymore than a vasectomy changes a mans.

    Soon there will be a birth control pill for men and I think health insurance should cover that as well. Seeing if men would take it would make for an interesting thread, too.
    .
    Last edited by Moot; 09-04-12 at 09:07 AM.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    I don't know Sandra Fluke, but I'd rather pay for her birth control than pay for her unwanted children or her abortion.

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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm not doing anything here, so this is not on me. You take actions and they have results. Deal with life. Is life really so cruel you people really can't deal with the results of your actions? There is certain amount of weakness in that which is also not on me. If you need parents than don't leave home. Seems pretty simple, lol.

    My nose on the other hand will be fine. I can deal with life and I have proven that over and over again.
    Action: don't pay for contraception
    Result: more babies are born and increase the tax burden
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin
    you people really can't deal with the results of your actions

  10. #100
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    Re: Should We Pay for Sandra Fluke's Contraception?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't know Sandra Fluke, but I'd rather pay for her birth control than pay for her unwanted children or her abortion.
    Agreed, but that does not mean that we have the right to force others to chip in against their will.

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