View Poll Results: Will the internet socialize the West?

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  • The internet will socialize the West.

    0 0%
  • The internet will help socialize the West.

    0 0%
  • The internet will likely socialize the West.

    0 0%
  • The internet will likely help socialize the West.

    1 14.29%
  • The internet might socialize the West.

    0 0%
  • The internet might help socialize the West.

    0 0%
  • The internet will unlikely socialize the West.

    2 28.57%
  • The internet will unlikely help socialize the West.

    1 14.29%
  • The internet won't socialize the West.

    0 0%
  • The internet won't help socialize the West.

    3 42.86%
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Thread: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

  1. #11
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Let's consider some aspects of the internet:

    • Encouragement of short term attention spans
    • Encouragement of fashion before function
    • Encouragement of quantity before quality
    • Encouragement of knowledge before intelligence


    Now, let's consider some aspects of socialism:

    • Discouragement of long term investment
    • Discouragement of understanding why before what
    • Discouragement of individuals before collectives
    • Discouragement of analytic before historical judgment


    Therefore, will the internet socialize the West?
    I don't think "socialize" necessarily relates to Socialism. I do have a current observation from personal experience and old age. I am a member of several fraternal organizations and we are always seeking new members. We are talking about "social groups" and in years past, it was stylish, popular, meaningful, status symbol, whatever, and participating in the fraternal social activities was considered important. In this time, it is extremely difficult to attract new membership and we have tried to analyze the reasons for that, and have discussed this collectively and our conclusion is that electronic entertainment is the culprit. People no longer need "person to person" social skills, but do everything with the keyboard. It is high quality entertainment, amusement, whatever, but it absolutely discourages the X generation from social participation. I had pondered if it might be intentional mind manipulation and concluded that would be a little too conspiratorial. Anyways, my conclusion is that the Internet discourages socialization. I'd appreciate any comments relating to what I have stated because it's not an idle thought but a continuing dilemna as regards attracting fraternal memberships.

  2. #12
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I don't think "socialize" necessarily relates to Socialism. I do have a current observation from personal experience and old age. I am a member of several fraternal organizations and we are always seeking new members. We are talking about "social groups" and in years past, it was stylish, popular, meaningful, status symbol, whatever, and participating in the fraternal social activities was considered important. In this time, it is extremely difficult to attract new membership and we have tried to analyze the reasons for that, and have discussed this collectively and our conclusion is that electronic entertainment is the culprit. People no longer need "person to person" social skills, but do everything with the keyboard. It is high quality entertainment, amusement, whatever, but it absolutely discourages the X generation from social participation. I had pondered if it might be intentional mind manipulation and concluded that would be a little too conspiratorial. Anyways, my conclusion is that the Internet discourages socialization. I'd appreciate any comments relating to what I have stated because it's not an idle thought but a continuing dilemna as regards attracting fraternal memberships.
    I was actually thinking of that when I wrote the OP - how "socialize" has multiple definitions.

    It's a shame that conservatives have forgotten about social conservatism, and instantly associate socialize with socialism.

    As for fraternities, you can't force people to join. Heck, forcing people would defeat the purpose of fraternities.

    What you can do, however, is publish philosophical values into the public domain. Quality recruits will approach you because they see what you stand for even if most people make fun of it.

    That said, if you're not willing to publish values, then your fraternity is probably too cowardly to be worthwhile joining.
    Last edited by Daktoria; 09-05-12 at 01:22 PM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    This thread seems relevant to this topic:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/philos...ood-thing.html

    I think the crux of the problem is re-writing society to have meaning without God. I don't think it can be done, and as a result society will break down into small sub-groups more easily exploited by ruthless leaders. I see this in the genrefication of music, where the smallest stylistic differences demand an entirely new categorization. Fierce battles ensue on music websites when anyone dares cross the orthodoxy of the music cognoscenti. This effect is most profound in heavy metal music.

    Internet fragmentation of attention is just the most obvious symptom of this disease.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  4. #14
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Let's consider some aspects of the internet:

    • Encouragement of short term attention spans
    • Encouragement of fashion before function
    • Encouragement of quantity before quality
    • Encouragement of knowledge before intelligence


    Now, let's consider some aspects of socialism:

    • Discouragement of long term investment
    • Discouragement of understanding why before what
    • Discouragement of individuals before collectives
    • Discouragement of analytic before historical judgment


    Therefore, will the internet socialize the West?
    Capitalism's refusal to offer paid job training is discouragement of long-term investment. As far as the individual is concerned, neither of these systems has anything to offer him. But you're right in the fact that a copycat medium like the Internet does socialize-capitalize. A typical error required to participate on the Internet is that there is any difference to the individual between socialism and capitalism.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    The type of investment you're talking about is similarly socializing. People with ADD who carry out long term investment liquidate the culture required for investment to happen. Good examples of this are information technology, public roads, biotech, and advertising. All of these things give people access to resources where they don't have to appreciate the thought processes required to invent said goods. Instead, people become spoiled, and in turn, they abuse future inventive personalities because their inventiveness is unnecessary for society to get along. Future inventors become expected to work hard rather than work smart, but because they're not built, they're mocked instead and expected to conform with the system.
    You mean conform to the capitalist system of indentured-servitude professional education and the grand larceny of corporate patents, which make the inventor the slave of the investor. You champion creative minds, thinking that your cheerleading will get them on your side, but you offer the same raw deal that socialists preach. "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his greed" is the capitalist limp comeback. Neither side offers "To each according to his abilities." Dozens of times I've tried to get that across on the Internet, but because it doesn't fit any of the required choices, people are not ready for new ideas here. The only reason the rulers allowed this puppet show was that they were confident that they had dumbed-down people enough to risk it. All we have here is a clash of cults, a face-off of fads, and a specious spectrum.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  6. #16
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    The issue of quantity over quality has always been the problem with information, even prior to the World Wide Web. Just as the 1st Amendment in the US creates an environment where everyone can speak naturally reduces the overall quality of the speech. But the 1st Amendment isn't about quality, and neither is the World Wide Web.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #17
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    Capitalism's refusal to offer paid job training is discouragement of long-term investment.
    You don't understand capitalism then. Creative destruction comes from ideas, not skills.

    Skills need to be discovered through ideas. Otherwise, workers just become robots.

    As far as the individual is concerned, neither of these systems has anything to offer him. But you're right in the fact that a copycat medium like the Internet does socialize-capitalize. A typical error required to participate on the Internet is that there is any difference to the individual between socialism and capitalism.
    Well I'll agree with you there. Socialism takes the worst aspects of industry and reinforces them.

  8. #18
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    Re: Will the Internet Socialize the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    You mean conform to the capitalist system of indentured-servitude professional education and the grand larceny of corporate patents, which make the inventor the slave of the investor. You champion creative minds, thinking that your cheerleading will get them on your side, but you offer the same raw deal that socialists preach. "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his greed" is the capitalist limp comeback. Neither side offers "To each according to his abilities." Dozens of times I've tried to get that across on the Internet, but because it doesn't fit any of the required choices, people are not ready for new ideas here. The only reason the rulers allowed this puppet show was that they were confident that they had dumbed-down people enough to risk it. All we have here is a clash of cults, a face-off of fads, and a specious spectrum.
    Institutionalization is a progressive manifestation where organic communities are sacrificed for hypercompetitive workaholism.

    It's not about economics. It's about society where people can't talk clearly, and therefore, manipulate manners, institutionalizing those who are born outcast.

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