View Poll Results: How should welfare be handled?

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  • Welfare should be left to the feds

    4 7.41%
  • Welfares should be left to the states

    18 33.33%
  • Welfare should be managed by both feds & states

    18 33.33%
  • There should be no welfare

    9 16.67%
  • IDK/Other

    5 9.26%
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Thread: Welfare

  1. #71
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I don't think you can draw SS unless you have 40 quarters paying in....that's 10 years of working. One of my brothers has only 9 years, but that 9 was in the military, so as soon as he hits 65 he can apply for a PENSION from the VA. He is already getting 50%disability compensation from the VA, hearing loss. But he won't get both....whichever is higher is what he gets, and it is means tested. But since he has nothing but a shack in the woods, and no income other than his disability, he should qualify for the pension. He isn't getting anything for his primary disability, terminal laziness....

    Somewhere along the line, people started thinking that SS was a retirement program. It is not, it was meant to be supplemental to savings and investments, etc. Too many people didn't save enough, so the IRA program and its sibling programs were brought in.
    STILL, a lot of people aren't doing their share of providing for their own future....
    Lots of people have trouble providing for their own present, let alone their future.

    You're right about SS: You have to have 40 quarters minimum. I don't qualify for SS as I didn't pay into it for that long. The money that they did deduct from my salary years ago is just lost. I did pay into state teacher's retirement for 38 years, however, which is a retirement fund and is light years ahead of SS in benefits.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Lots of people have trouble providing for their own present, let alone their future.

    You're right about SS: You have to have 40 quarters minimum. I don't qualify for SS as I didn't pay into it for that long. The money that they did deduct from my salary years ago is just lost. I did pay into state teacher's retirement for 38 years, however, which is a retirement fund and is light years ahead of SS in benefits.
    my wife did both SS and teacher retirement from AZ.....her retirement is better than mine. All of her teacher retirement is from money she contributed, the school district put in nothing. And AZ did a decent job investing, it seems.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    my wife did both SS and teacher retirement from AZ.....her retirement is better than mine. All of her teacher retirement is from money she contributed, the school district put in nothing. And AZ did a decent job investing, it seems.
    So it seems.

    In California, the school district matches the teacher's contributions. It's 8% and 8%, just like SS, except that the money doesn't go into the general fund.

    The state wanted to put it in the general fund a few years back, but that terrible, liberal, awful old socialistic union put a stop to it.

    Too bad the SS payers didn't have a union, huh?
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  4. #74
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    Re: Welfare

    No welfare at all probably winds up costing more in the end in the form of crime and medical bills.

  5. #75
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    Re: Welfare

    This is an article on Welfare and germain to this discussion.

    The Real Welfare Problem: Government Giveaways to the Corporate 1% | Common Dreams

    "But it’s not about welfare queens vs hard working whites; its not about race or ethnic divisions; it’s not about any of the standard Republican bait and switch, divide and conquer BS.

    It’s about handouts to the uber-rich and the corporations."

  6. #76
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    This is an article on Welfare and germain to this discussion.

    The Real Welfare Problem: Government Giveaways to the Corporate 1% | Common Dreams

    "But it’s not about welfare queens vs hard working whites; its not about race or ethnic divisions; it’s not about any of the standard Republican bait and switch, divide and conquer BS.

    It’s about handouts to the uber-rich and the corporations."
    From your link:

    Let’s run the numbers.

    Corporate Subsidies: We spend $59 billion on social welfare programs, but more than $92 billion on corporate subsidies. According to the Environmental Law Institute, fossil fuel industries alone get more than $70 billion in subsidies, with most going to the oil and gas sector. Yeah, we certainly can’t afford to deprive Exxon of its record profits just to give money to needy kids.
    I've got a better idea: Let's eliminate that $92B entirely, cut that $59 about in half by eliminating fraud and long term dependency, and apply $122B to cutting the deficit.
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  7. #77
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    This is an article on Welfare and germain to this discussion.

    The Real Welfare Problem: Government Giveaways to the Corporate 1% | Common Dreams

    "But it’s not about welfare queens vs hard working whites; its not about race or ethnic divisions; it’s not about any of the standard Republican bait and switch, divide and conquer BS.

    It’s about handouts to the uber-rich and the corporations."
    Where in the world did that site come up with it's numbers? Government Spending Details: Federal State Local for 2012 - Charts shows a budget analysis and shows total welfare spending at $451.9 billion for 2012 by the Federal Government and an estimated $679.2 billion by state and federal governments. With an additional $323.9 in vendor payments (welfare) under Heathcare. That is a total of $775.8 billion by the Federal Government. Your source says only $59 billion, either they are blowing smoke up someones ass or they are using a very, very narrow definition of social welfare programs.

    Also, their claims of "subsidies" I don't get either. No where in the budget does it budget $70 Billion to oil and gas. Maybe there are tax breaks that total that amount, but that is not subsidies, that is taxes. Funny how they bring up "overseas shelters" for profits earned outside the US. The US is the only industrialized nation that taxes on global profit instead of only national. The US also has the highest corporate tax rates with total corporate taxation at 64% for the US.

    The US needs to redo it's entire tax structure, sure. But taxation is not our biggest budgetary problem, mismanagement and overspending are the biggest problems. With total Welfare programs spending, by the Federal Government not including local governments, ($775.8 billion) higher than we spend on military defense ($716.3 billion). Welfare looks like a pretty good place to start looking for cuts, sure, defense needs to be cleaned up also, but welfare must be addressed also.

  8. #78
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Where in the world did that site come up with it's numbers? Government Spending Details: Federal State Local for 2012 - Charts shows a budget analysis and shows total welfare spending at $451.9 billion for 2012 by the Federal Government and an estimated $679.2 billion by state and federal governments. With an additional $323.9 in vendor payments (welfare) under Heathcare. That is a total of $775.8 billion by the Federal Government. Your source says only $59 billion, either they are blowing smoke up someones ass or they are using a very, very narrow definition of social welfare programs.

    Also, their claims of "subsidies" I don't get either. No where in the budget does it budget $70 Billion to oil and gas. Maybe there are tax breaks that total that amount, but that is not subsidies, that is taxes. Funny how they bring up "overseas shelters" for profits earned outside the US. The US is the only industrialized nation that taxes on global profit instead of only national. The US also has the highest corporate tax rates with total corporate taxation at 64% for the US.

    The US needs to redo it's entire tax structure, sure. But taxation is not our biggest budgetary problem, mismanagement and overspending are the biggest problems. With total Welfare programs spending, by the Federal Government not including local governments, ($775.8 billion) higher than we spend on military defense ($716.3 billion). Welfare looks like a pretty good place to start looking for cuts, sure, defense needs to be cleaned up also, but welfare must be addressed also.
    That 775.8 billion is an eye opening figure, no doubt, but just what is included under the general term "welfare"?
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  9. #79
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    Re: Welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That 775.8 billion is an eye opening figure, no doubt, but just what is included under the general term "welfare"?
    The link provided provides a breakdown. The $323.9 billion figure is under Healthcare, vendor payments (welfare). The $451.9 figure is under the heading of welfare, which it breaks down to Family and children, unemployment, workers compensation, housing, and social exclusions nec. It further breaks down each of these categories (click the + to expand), but the list is much too long to transfer here. Depending on your own belief about what constitutes welfare and what doesn't, you can break out what you believe it to be.

    While I do not normally include unemployment in my welfare philosophy of what is welfare, like the data provided, I do differentiate between unemployment trust (the Federal government spent no money on it) and the trust fund that employers pay into. To me, that trust is not welfare where the government payments are.

  10. #80
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    Re: Welfare

    Should be left to the Feds. Generally the states that need the most help (poor southern states) are the one's that can least afford it. It's just reality.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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