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Most likely to win Presidential debates

Most likely to win Debates

  • Romney

    Votes: 9 27.3%

  • Obama

    Votes: 24 72.7%
  • Total voters
    33
Diogenes said:
Like he did on the Janesville GM plant? Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me...
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That GM plant was closed before Obama even took office. Believe me I know, I live in Janesville.
 
Dickieboy said:
I'm sure those 57 UNION workers would not appreciate you marginalizing their work...further your 'they were closed...except for those 57 workers who worked for the next four months' is quite laughable...parse words to make your point much?...carry on...:lamo
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Yes the plant was still operating at a fractional capacity finishing some orders before finally and totally shutting down, however the decision to close it had already been made, the workers had been laid off, the main production had stopped and after the last order was complete the remaining workers were laid off as well. I consider that closed. I can see the difference of opinion however, but for all practical purposes the place was closed.

I don't know why you emphasized Union, whether they are union or not plays no part in the status of the plant.
 
Dickieboy said:
From YOUR source:



Remind me again WHEN that plant closed...
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2008, I live in janesville and remember all the people being sent home. The plant wasn't officially closed until 2009 but it was not functioning or employing any people in 2008.
 
Hard to judge. I haven't seen Obama debate for a long time, but Romney was never convincing in the Republican debates that I saw.
 
Wiseone said:
I consider 1200 workers laid off, the main assembly lines shut down, but 57 workers remaining behind to finish a few last orders as closed. Yes.
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Ah, now 'open' and 'closed' have a nuanced meaning. The hell with the dictionary and their actual definitions.
 
OnWisconsin said:
2008, I live in janesville and remember all the people being sent home. The plant wasn't officially closed until 2009 but it was not functioning or employing any people in 2008.
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An, and more like 'wiseone' I see.. I guess producing vehicles is not 'functioning' when it comes to an auto plant. How very strange.
 
Dickieboy said:
I'm sure those 57 UNION workers would not appreciate you marginalizing their work...further your 'they were closed...except for those 57 workers who worked for the next four months' is quite laughable...parse words to make your point much?...carry on...:lamo
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Are we not twisting off into complete irrelevance? This whole line of argument as to whether the plant closed in 2008 or 2009 or who said it will remain open or closed seems so completely irrelevant to this election. This is the one of the silliest sidebars yet in this election.

On a global front, the US auto industry, including its supply chain was saved by the quick and bold actions of the Obama and the Bush administrations. The particulars of what got closed in the process are irrelevant details to the big picture.

As it was, many on the right were outraged that the government got involved at all in the management of GM. It seems a bit disingenuous now to question a particular decision made by GM management.
 
upsideguy said:
On a global front, the US auto industry, including its supply chain was saved by the quick and bold actions of the Obama and the Bush administrations. The particulars of what got closed in the process are irrelevant details to the big picture.
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Not to the folks who got laid off.
 
Diogenes said:
Not to the folks who got laid off.
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Yes, but when discussing macroeconomics, isn't it better to look at the big picture as opposed to getting caught up in the details? It only makes sense to try and implement policy that serves the needs of the general populace, as you can't cater to every specific group/person.
 
Diogenes said:
Not to the folks who got laid off.
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I don't think anyone intended to save every job. Contrary to the worldview of many, this was not socialism at work. This was the government trying to direct monies to shore up the economy. Had our auto industry failed, most of the supply chain would have failed and we most certainly would have slipped into pronounced depression.... OK that is my opinion, but I do believe there is plenty of support for that assertion.
 
Obama's campaign speeches to the people of Janesville were clearly intended to leave the impression that he would support saving the plant and the jobs. Although it was clear to some of us in 2008, it should be obvious to all by now that Obama is not going to deliver.

The details are very important to those who feel betrayed.
 
I'll just say Romney because I have no basis to say so, and frankly distrust most people's measurements for "winning" the debates.
 
listener said:
Romney or Obama?
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Good public speaking but no clear policy (Romney) vs. clear policy with awful public speaking (Obama).

Ugh. I'll read about it the next day.
 
Diogenes said:
Like he did on the Janesville GM plant? Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me...
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I'd be happy to see Romeny get an issue factually accurate. The convention had real issues with facts.
 
Boo Radley said:
The convention had real issues with facts.
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It's a convention and it's campaign season. Expect far less from everyone, and expect more in terms of generalities.
 
Arbo said:
An, and more like 'wiseone' I see.. I guess producing vehicles is not 'functioning' when it comes to an auto plant. How very strange.
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I use to drive by GM every day to go to work, In fact I use to work for a subsidiary of GM that use to produce seats for the Tahoe line. Everyday going to work I would see HUGE parking lot full of cars. This represented a healthy economy here in janesville and the surrounding area. After 2008 happened, you'd drive by and see a very tiny section of parked cars near the main entrance. Sure, it was functioning, kinda like someone on a breathing/feeding tube is still functioning. Honestly though, it was dead and everyone knew it.

What most people don't realize is that once GM gave word that they were closing their doors, it wasn't just GM that was effected. There were dozens of smaller companies around the city that produced parts or reworked parts for GM to use on the lines, that shut their doors down as well. This all happened in 2008. In 2009 it might have had some small 25-50 worker labor force, but that is nothing compared to the thousands it employed before.
 
OnWisconsin said:
...it was functioning...is still functioning....it was dead
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I whittled down your post to the part I need you to expound on. And after that would you please point out WITH SPECIFICITY what Ryan said in his speech that DIRECTLY blamed President Obama for the plant shutdown.

Thanks...;)
 
Fiddytree said:
It's a convention and it's campaign season. Expect far less from everyone, and expect more in terms of generalities.
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Sadly that's true. I don't think we actually have debates here. We really might considered just letting them each gives us a comerical and avoid the debate prestense altogether.
 
Diogenes said:
Does Obama get to use his teleprompter? If not, he loses.
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You can't possibly think that Willard doesn't use a teleprompter. When he's without his teleprompter, he makes more gaffes than Bush.:roll:
 
listener said:
Romney or Obama?
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Polls without reference to who voted are worthless

and no matter what happens, the MSM will claim Obama won
 
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