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Have you every received some form government assistance?

Have you ever received governmrnt assistance?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 65.2%

  • No

    Votes: 19 28.8%

  • My parents did on my behalf when I was a kid

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • Total voters
    66
Dittohead not! said:
I'm sure all of that is true, no question. #4 is getting more and more difficult to accomplish in today's America, unfortunately. That is the one that needs to be made more readily available. The others are lifestyle choices. People who make those choices need to live with the results.
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It's not difficult at all if you work hard, have a good work ethic and excel in your profession. For the people who start at the bottom and 20 years later are still at the bottom, no doubt, they are being surpassed by their peers. If you're not in management within 5 years, something is seriously wrong with you.
 
Smeagol said:
-Welfare
-AFDC
-Medicaid
-Food stamps/EBT cards
-Government cheese/government peanut butter
-Free or reduced school lunches
-WIC
-Pell grant
-Cash for clunkers
-Electric vehicle tax credit
-Federal Tax Credits for Energy Efficiency for solar, wind or geothermal upgrades
-Unemployment compensation
-Free or discounted digital TV converter box
-Free Government Cell Phone
-Section 8 housing tenant or landlord
-HUD project resident
-First time home buyer down payment assistance
-Any other government hand out for which you or your parents when you were a minor had to request or otherwise apply

Academic and athletic scholarships and GI Bill excluded as those are earned. Social Security and Medicare excluded as well as we are all required to pay into it.
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Never received cheese from the government, but I have purchased them from others who received them. That was some damn good cheese!

The three in green I have received.

Personally, I consider unemployment compensation to be "paid into" the same as SS and medicare. Just because I don't see it as a line item on my pay stub doesn't mean it isn't part of my overall employment pay compensation. A cost that is a mandatory cost to an employer in order to employ me. Theoretically, at least, my pay could be higher without that added mandatory cost.
 
Smeagol said:
Yeah, but SS and and Medicare are different IMHO because its specifically for something we're our retirement days. That's unlike the others where not everybody gets paid back in a specific form.
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This point would carry more weight if the government didn't raid the funds and apply the money elsewhere, i.e.: as in when President Clinton used them to "balance" the budget.
 
Cephus said:
If you're not in management within 5 years, something is seriously wrong with you.
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More arbitrary assertions backed with little more than fluff. With such substantial life experience under your belt, you should know this statement to be absolute hogwash.
 
Smeagol said:
A great argument for private investment accounts. In the world of investing, the amount put in over time would have grown due to compounding rates of return that would have been automatically reinvented into the account. In a generation we could have a nation of millionaires but democrats scare the heck out of the elderly making them think they'll be forsaken keeping a system on the path to failure in place.
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Those who can and will do those, sure. But I had a friend at WS (another site) who was a conservative and argued for that often. During our crash here, he lost much, next to all of it. Being at the retirement age, he was shocked at how much it cost him to have done it that way. He was thankful to have the government aid. In other words, he changed his mind. I noted it.

The fact is, few are good at finances. Some will slip through and be unable to liveonce they reach that age. As a people, we have to decide how we handle that.
 
Smeagol said:
This was actually the point I was trying to make with the thread. As much as we (me included) condem government handouts gone wild, if we're honest I was thinking most of us needed the safety net at some point or a hand up. Staying on it with no plan or desire to not need it anymore in most cases is a problem however, IMHO.

I'll be honest, with the exception of my pell grant in college, I'll was actually embarrassed by needed government assistance even as a kid in elementary school. I remember my mother sending me to the store with food stamps to buy a loaf of bread and I walk walk miles further than I needed to and go to a store in another neighborhood so that no one would recognize me. This as a fourth grader. Character flaw? Maybe. A guy thing? Probably. Who knows? It just made me feel second class.
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For me, at least, it's the "hog wild" part that I object to. I don't want to see all programs done away with, but do I think we have taken it too far.


Smeagol said:
I'm actually surprised most people responding to the poll have never needed government help. I thought it would have been closer to 80% yes, 20% no. Especally considering the more accepted forms like pell grants, first time homeowner downpayment and unemployment compensation. I know a millionaire who gets section 8 money as a landlord. Business owners get FEMA help sometimes if a storm damages their business property beyond what insurance covers. Some farmers get subsidies. Oil companies get subsidies. There are a lot of government hand outs that don't carry the stigma of a free loader like food stamps and Medicare.
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If I were a landlord I would not accept Section 8. Solely because the red tape and restrictions and hoops the government makes landlords go through are absurd and unreasonable.


cpwill said:
If I stay in the military, I will probably pass on my G.I. Bill to my kids, if I get out, I will probably not fully use it. Both Social Security and Medicare are unlikely to be there for me in my older years.
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Is this relatively new? I have never heard of this.

To be honest, I'm not sure I like it. The kids can get their own GI BIll when they serve.


Cephus said:
I don't think it's as rare as you want to think that it is. Lots of people work their entire lives and never have to rely on the government for any freebies.
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Do you own a home? Do you take the mortgage tax deduction?

The mortgage tax deduction should have been on the list. For many, it is the difference between owning a home and not.


cpwill said:
Pew Research did a study a while back on what causes people to fall out of the middle class and into poverty. Their "Top Five" were:

1. Divorce
2. Failure to Marry (as in, the parent of your children)
3. Heroin or other 'hard drug' usage
4. Failure to graduate high school (compared to high school graduates)
5. Failure to graduate high school (compared to college graduates)


Generally speaking, the evidence repeatedly demonstrates that if you:

1. Graduate high school
2. Wait until you are married to have children
3. Stay married and
4. Work full time

you are statistically very unlikely to fall into (or, if you ever do, remain in) poverty.
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This mirrors pretty closely what I have always thought. As a general rule, people are in the situation they are precisely because of the choices they made.


LiberalAvenger said:
There are a lot of sucess stories about people who have received government aid. President Rooselvelt's job programs have paid huge dividends to America. The Hoover dam is only one example. There are many others.

Unfortunately, some people have tried to stigmatize these programs for political gains.

Who can not remember "welfare Cadillac?
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When the country was still relatively undeveloped, things like Hoover Dam and the Interstate Highway System were indeed great boons to the economy, and have paid dividends that far exceed their cost. Opportunities like that are now very rare.
 
I'm always amused by the chest-thumping, "I'll pay into them my entire life and never take a dime back!", attitude. Yeah, you sure showed them. :lol: Always seemed self-defeating to me. I'm not one to go seeking government help, but if it's there and I need it, I have no qualms with taking it.

Sometimes I don't even *need* it. The home mortgage deduction, for example. I can afford my home just fine without it, but it's there, I qualify, so I'm taking it... and I have no guilt in doing so.
 
Boo Radley said:
Those who can and will do those, sure. But I had a friend at WS (another site) who was a conservative and argued for that often. During our crash here, he lost much, next to all of it. Being at the retirement age, he was shocked at how much it cost him to have done it that way. He was thankful to have the government aid. In other words, he changed his mind. I noted it.

The fact is, few are good at finances. Some will slip through and be unable to liveonce they reach that age. As a people, we have to decide how we handle that.
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Sad thing is? We used to handle that with our families. Now families most often step back -- when they should be stepping up.

Our parents gave us LIFE, for God's sake. We can't help them out in their golden years? I guess not. If the government won't help them, we'll just have to float them out on icebergs.
 
Hare said:
More arbitrary assertions backed with little more than fluff. With such substantial life experience under your belt, you should know this statement to be absolute hogwash.
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Nope, sorry. The people who don't get ahead are the ones without the drive and work ethic to make it. If you want to advance in your career, if you're willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead, you can get ahead.
 
MaggieD said:
Sad thing is? We used to handle that with our families. Now families most often step back -- when they should be stepping up.

Our parents gave us LIFE, for God's sake. We can't help them out in their golden years? I guess not. If the government won't help them, we'll just have to float them out on icebergs.
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Well, some did. We actually had a number of people living in serious poverty. The past was rarely as good as we think it was. But, it is also true that we care less for our families than we used to.
 
radcen said:
Do you own a home? Do you take the mortgage tax deduction?

The mortgage tax deduction should have been on the list. For many, it is the difference between owning a home and not.
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The whole reason they offer a mortgage tax deduction is to encourage more people to buy houses and thus, pay more property taxes. It's not a government freebie, it's a means to make more money.

Try again.
 
Yes, the government gave me subsidized student loans to attend college and business school. And the government gave my parents a mortgage interest deduction on their taxes.
 
MaggieD said:
Sad thing is? We used to handle that with our families. Now families most often step back -- when they should be stepping up.

Our parents gave us LIFE, for God's sake. We can't help them out in their golden years? I guess not. If the government won't help them, we'll just have to float them out on icebergs.
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I'll admit, I struggle with this. I don't want my mom living with me. I don't want my mother-in-law living with me. I don't want to ever live with my kids. But... I am aware that this is a selfish attitude, and I am somewhat ashamed for having it. Yet, I still have it.
 
Cephus said:
The whole reason they offer a mortgage tax deduction is to encourage more people to buy houses and thus, pay more property taxes. It's not a government freebie, it's a means to make more money.

Try again.
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If your point were worthy you wouldn't need the smug and dismissive "try again" crap. The point would stand alone.

Fact is, regardless any other parallel motivations, it is still a "freebie" to the individual homeowner.
 
radcen said:
I'll admit, I struggle with this. I don't want my mom living with me. I don't want my mother-in-law living with me. I don't want to ever live with my kids. But... I am aware that this is a selfish attitude, and I am somewhat ashamed for having it. Yet, I still have it.
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My mother isn't going to have a problem. Even though she and my father never made a lot of money, what she did have was well invested and, with a couple of lucky breaks, she's now worth almost $2 million in her late 60s. I helped them set up their investment strategies and 401ks over the years and now, even though my father has been dead for a long time now, she's in good financial shape.
 
radcen said:
Fact is, regardless any other parallel motivations, it is still a "freebie" to the individual homeowner.
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There's a difference between a freebie and an incentive.
 
radcen said:
I'll admit, I struggle with this. I don't want my mom living with me. I don't want my mother-in-law living with me. I don't want to ever live with my kids. But... I am aware that this is a selfish attitude, and I am somewhat ashamed for having it. Yet, I still have it.
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They don't have to live with you in order for you to help them, Radcen. If they live near you and you're able-bodied, you can help in a myriad of ways. For very little, you can improve their quality of life SO much!! Mom's 85 years old. I pay for her cable every month. I used to pay for someone to clean, but now she pays for it herself through a senior program offered by the State of Illinois. That she never would have known about or investigated or took advantage of had I not stepped in. She gets Meals on Wheels for $60 a month. A really nice hot meal delivered for a charming volunteer who's gotten to know her and adds to her daily social life. She also has a lady who comes two hours every two weeks to straighten up the house, dust and vacuum, and sit and visit with her a while. That costs $28 a month.

And sometimes? Know what we have to do? We have to remind the old folks that they need to spend some of the money they've saved! A friend used to tell families of moms and dads: "Your parents have been saving all their lives for a rainy day. Honey, it's pourin' outside."

There are so many senior services out there today, Radcen. States subsidize them because they realize it's much cheaper to do that than it is to have old people give up and enter old peoples' homes at the government's expense.
 
Cephus said:
Nope, sorry. The people who don't get ahead are the ones without the drive and work ethic to make it.

If you want to advance in your career, if you're willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead, you can get ahead.
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Or they simply don't find themselves in a condoning work environment. Happens to a great number of industrious, skilled, and ambitious workers. Common knowledge really.

Bolded for emphasis. Just because one doesn't find themselves in management within 5 years, does not make them an inferior employee, nor does it indicate incompetence. Those of us who operate in the general realm of reality know this to be true.
 
Cephus said:
My mother isn't going to have a problem. Even though she and my father never made a lot of money, what she did have was well invested and, with a couple of lucky breaks, she's now worth almost $2 million in her late 60s. I helped them set up their investment strategies and 401ks over the years and now, even though my father has been dead for a long time now, she's in good financial shape.
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That's good. (Seriously, not condescendingly) But that's only half the equation. The other half is health and/or ability to care for oneself at an advanced age.

Should the time come that your mother cannot physically care for herself properly, will you (or another family member) move her in, or will she go to a home?*

*-Sometimes really bad health issues necessitate a home, but that's an extreme scenario.
 
Hare said:
Or they simply don't find themselves in a condoning work environment. Happens to a great number of industrious, skilled, and ambitious workers. Common knowledge really.
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Then they need to find a better work environment. It's still on their shoulders.

Bolded for emphasis. Just because one doesn't find themselves in management within 5 years, does not make them an inferior employee, nor does it indicate incompetence. Those of us who operate in the general realm of reality know this to be true.
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I just pulled 5 years out of thin air, it's a concept, not a hard number. I've never worked for a company in my life for more than 2 years without being in management, no matter how low on the totem pole I started. My point was people who just sit there in an entry level job for their entire careers, never going anywhere, never getting any better, and then complaining about how unfair life is. Whose fault is it?
 
radcen said:
That's good. (Seriously, not condescendingly) But that's only half the equation. The other half is health and/or ability to care for oneself at an advanced age.

Should the time come that your mother cannot physically care for herself properly, will you (or another family member) move her in, or will she go to a home?*

*-Sometimes really bad health issues necessitate a home, but that's an extreme scenario.
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Nope. She doesn't live alone.
 
radcen said:
Yes... semantics.
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Not semantics at all. A freebie is something that you are given with no strings attached, it's a gift. An incentive is something you are given in order to extract even more money and intangible benefits for the person giving you the incentive in the first place. You get that incentive because you're worth more to the city/state as a homeowner than you are as a renter.
 
Cephus said:
Then they need to find a better work environment. It's still on their shoulders.



I just pulled 5 years out of thin air,

it's a concept, not a hard number.

I've never worked for a company in my life for more than 2 years without being in management, no matter how low on the totem pole I started.

My point was people who just sit there in an entry level job for their entire careers, never going anywhere, never getting any better, and then complaining about how unfair life is. Whose fault is it?
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Many who you fault for not packing up and abandoning said occupation happen to have degrees of study in that specific field, and lack neither the financial or social mobility to simply uproot themselves and search out another job or become certified in a differing field.

Air was it?

Indeed, there is nothing "hard" about an abritrary parameter for your idea of sucess set seemingly without thought or consideration.

I'll go ahead and file your example under the "anecdotal" and "largely irrelevant" categories for the time being.

Who's complaining? I'm simply stating the evident and undeniable fact that not all who find themselves among the lower end of the income spectrum are there due to their own incompetence or lack of motivation. Nuance is a rather important concept to grasp when discussing matters of the sort.
 
Hare said:
Many who you fault for not packing up and abandoning said occupation happen to have degrees of study in that specific field, and lack neither the financial or social mobility to simply uproot themselves and search out another job or become certified in a differing field.
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These were people who apparently didn't do much research into their chosen field. They didn't know that upwards mobility was difficult? Seriously?
 
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