View Poll Results: Have you ever received governmrnt assistance?

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  • Yes

    45 61.64%
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    22 30.14%
  • My parents did on my behalf when I was a kid

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Thread: Have you every received some form government assistance?

  1. #41
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And if you go through four years of non-productivity, lose out on the wages of those years, and then graduate to get a job that requires no degree, but which you could have gotten four years ago, is it worth that cost? Or, if like the majority of students, you do not achieve the degree, but instead take on the debt and then drop out, was it worth it? Was it worth it at inflated prices?


    and you did not answer the question, if the government offers you a $10K subsidy to purchase something that it increases the price of by $20K, are you 10K ahead or 10K behind because of the action of the government?
    First off, I don't agree with your premise that the government subsidy would increase the cost by 100%, that's ridiculous. My schooling is paid in full by my Pell. Instead of working in a low end job with no other future prospects(I fail to see how this is productive) I'm going to get a degree, and enter into a profession with good pay, one that is hiring, and with lots of room for upward movement(Working as a radiological technicial). I fail to see how these years are non-productive for me, they are quite productive for me.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    What makes a college education valuabe is its scarcity, just like any commodity. If everyone goes to college, a college education stops being of any real worth.

  3. #43
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    First off, I don't agree with your premise that the government subsidy would increase the cost by 100%, that's ridiculous.
    I do not claim so, though over time that is certainly plausible. However, the prevalence of government support certainly fuels education inflation. There are two industries that are mostly paid for by government - healthcare and education; and the cost inflation in both of them is skyrocketing.

    My schooling is paid in full by my Pell. Instead of working in a low end job with no other future prospects(I fail to see how this is productive) I'm going to get a degree, and enter into a profession with good pay, one that is hiring, and with lots of room for upward movement(Working as a radiological technicial).
    hooray! I congratulate you on beating out half of our generation and having a job lined up that actually requires your degree. Sadly, yours is not that common an experience. .

    I fail to see how these years are non-productive for me, they are quite productive for me.
    That is because, assuming you graduate in 4 years and do indeed get a job that requires your degree, you will be in a distinct minority of your college freshman class.

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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And if you go through four years of non-productivity, lose out on the wages of those years, and then graduate to get a job that requires no degree, but which you could have gotten four years ago, is it worth that cost? Or, if like the majority of students, you do not achieve the degree, but instead take on the debt and then drop out, was it worth it? Was it worth it at inflated prices?


    and you did not answer the question, if the government offers you a $10K subsidy to purchase something that it increases the price of by $20K, are you 10K ahead or 10K behind because of the action of the government?
    Your Star outline a lot of what I wanted to say, but I'll throw something in as well. What kind of people help the economy more? People with the education to further develop industries, or people lacking this education? A college degree is helpful not only for an individual, but for the national and international markets.

  5. #45
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    What makes a college education valuabe is its scarcity, just like any commodity.

    If everyone goes to college, a college education stops being of any real worth.
    No, the value lies in the future implementation of such knowledge required throughout college education, and the subsequent monetary value and job security that education may yield in the future.

    Not if one pursues a degree in a field with an immediate need for trained professionals. There is still large demand for skilled and knowledgeable individuals in specific fields, regardless of the volume of gen ed college graduates.

  6. #46
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Your Star outline a lot of what I wanted to say, but I'll throw something in as well. What kind of people help the economy more? People with the education to further develop industries, or people lacking this education? A college degree is helpful not only for an individual, but for the national and international markets.
    1. the majority of students who go to college do not graduate 4 years later
    2. of those who do, half of them do not get jobs that require a college degree
    3. every college degree is not economically beneficial. my plumber having a bachelors in English Lit does not make him a better plumber. no sink requires the ability to deconstruct chaucer.
    4. Debt and years of unproductivity, however, harm the economy. My plumber taking a 4 year break to study Chaucer means 4 years in which we as an economy lack his plumbing services, and the accumulation of student debt (which now surpasses credit card debt) puts a heavy burden upon our populace at the very beginning of their professional lives, and slows economic growth.

  7. #47
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    No, the value lies in the future implementation of such knowledge required throughout college education, and the subsequent monetary value that education may yield.
    But there has to be a market for that educational knowledge. When you have more people getting degrees than there are jobs that reqire such degrees, then you have college graduates driving trucks.

    Not if one pursues a degree in a field with an immediate need for trained professionals.
    An immediate need assumes a lack of qualified applicants. My point was the opposite. If everyone goes to college you will have loads of people with an 'immediate need' for a job but no openings because the state has flooded the market.

  8. #48
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    But there has to be a market for that educational knowledge.

    When you have more people getting degrees than there are jobs that reqire such degrees, then you have college graduates driving trucks.
    And there is, just take a glance at skilled labor and high tech fields as of late and the projections for the immediate future.

    Currently, the truck driving graduate is as much a victim of labor market conditions as opposed to an flooding of qualified applicants. There is still large amounts of slack in the labor force within specified, skilled labor fields.

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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. the majority of students who go to college do not graduate 4 years later
    2. of those who do, half of them do not get jobs that require a college degree
    3. every college degree is not economically beneficial. my plumber having a bachelors in English Lit does not make him a better plumber. no sink requires the ability to deconstruct chaucer.
    4. Debt and years of unproductivity, however, harm the economy. My plumber taking a 4 year break to study Chaucer means 4 years in which we as an economy lack his plumbing services, and the accumulation of student debt (which now surpasses credit card debt) puts a heavy burden upon our populace at the very beginning of their professional lives, and slows economic growth.
    Do you think the only kind of workforce we need is one chocked full of plumbers? The problem here is that you're not looking at the big picture. I'm sure anyone would agree that the kind of worker we need right now is an engineer, or someone that, like an engineer, can help the US adapt to a changing economy. You really think a plumber is going to develop an alternative energy economy when we run out of Oil? Develop more efficient shipping techniques? Treat patients?

    Your view on the world economy is incredibly narrow and you fail to see that a majority of jobs do require a college education - that these jobs are ones that allow for the creation of others. The US is one of the world's microcosms of development, we are not a nation of plumbers - not one where we aim to halt development by refusing to educate ourselves.

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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    I have enjoyed the benefits of government-funded health care but not in the US. In America, I have received no more than the standard benefits of living in the country - police, firefighters, safe travel on maintained streets roads and highways - you know the usual.
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