View Poll Results: Have you ever received governmrnt assistance?

Voters
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  • Yes

    45 61.64%
  • No

    22 30.14%
  • My parents did on my behalf when I was a kid

    6 8.22%
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Thread: Have you every received some form government assistance?

  1. #131
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    What do you mean you have to do nothing else? Then you start paying property taxes, which goes into the city's larders. Then you start paying sales taxes in the city, which goes to the government. Then you start contributing to the city's community and stability, which reduces costs for city services like police. The more houses they fill, the higher property values rise and the more money they make off the next guys who move in down the street! You buying a house makes the city and state you live in a ton of money, they're offering incentives to get you in the door!

    What, you thought they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts?

    It's like those stupid As-Seen-On-TV things. But wait! Act today and they'll double your order! Just pay separate shipping and handling, which costs you more than the item they're giving you "free". But maybe you think they're giving you freebies too!
    Landlords don't pay property taxes? Oh, wait, yes, they do. Whomever owns the property pays property taxes.

    Mortgage deductions are federal/national. People will pay sales taxes regardless which area they live, and regardless whether they own, rent, or squat. Not even remotely associated.

    If a home buyer buys according to property tax rates, that is a local decision based on local tax rates, and has nothing to do with the national/federal aspect of the mortgage deduction directly.

    And yes, as I have said... twice... there are some parallel benefits. Community stability is a nice one. I'm a big believer in that one. Still doesn't lessen the fact that you're getting a freebie in the form of a handout, parallel motivations notwithstanding.

    Since you're deftly avoiding the specific question, I'll presume that you have indeed taken said home mortgage deduction at some point in your life. In fact, and I'm projecting here I know, I'd bet you bought your home primarily because it was a good financial move, and that you didn't *need* the deduction, but took it anyway because that was a good financial move as well... which makes it even more of a handout. But... that would be an inconvenient thing to admit.
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  2. #132
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There's a difference between a freebie and an incentive.
    The mortgage interest deduction is absolutely a freebie to homeowners. And it is only an "incentive" in the same sense that any other government assistance to encourage/discourage a specific type of behavior is an incentive. Just like you don't get money for food stamps if you don't buy groceries, and you don't get subsidized student loans if you aren't in school, you don't get a mortgage interest deduction if you don't have a home mortgage.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Those who can and will do those, sure. But I had a friend at WS (another site) who was a conservative and argued for that often. During our crash here, he lost much, next to all of it. Being at the retirement age, he was shocked at how much it cost him to have done it that way. He was thankful to have the government aid. In other words, he changed his mind. I noted it.
    I've run the math on this about a dozen times for the various threads we've run on this topic. You would have to take a lower growth rate than we've seen for private accounts, produce two back-to-back 2008/2009 style meltdowns, and then have the individual involved make the worst possible set of decisions regarding withdrawal in order to knock the returns of a private account down to what they would get from Social Security.

    The fact is, few are good at finances.
    For my examples, I use index funds. It's not exactly that difficult to purchase an index fund. And the reason that so few are good at finances is because A) we don't teach it and B) we do not (by and large) teach the values that go with it. If we never teach our children to be frugal, and we never show them how to live on less than they make, how can we expect them to be any good at finance?


    Some will slip through and be unable to liveonce they reach that age. As a people, we have to decide how we handle that.
    guarantee the same return as one would have received from SS. for those whose accounts fall below that level, we make up the difference. my bet would be that we very rarely have to pay out.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  4. #134
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I've run the math on this about a dozen times for the various threads we've run on this topic. You would have to take a lower growth rate than we've seen for private accounts, produce two back-to-back 2008/2009 style meltdowns, and then have the individual involved make the worst possible set of decisions regarding withdrawal in order to knock the returns of a private account down to what they would get from Social Security.



    For my examples, I use index funds. It's not exactly that difficult to purchase an index fund. And the reason that so few are good at finances is because A) we don't teach it and B) we do not (by and large) teach the values that go with it. If we never teach our children to be frugal, and we never show them how to live on less than they make, how can we expect them to be any good at finance?




    guarantee the same return as one would have received from SS. for those whose accounts fall below that level, we make up the difference. my bet would be that we very rarely have to pay out.
    Your numbers, for whatever they are worth don't change what he reported.

    And what you would do, if left to others, doesn't equal what everyone would do.

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  5. #135
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Is this relatively new? I have never heard of this.

    To be honest, I'm not sure I like it. The kids can get their own GI BIll when they serve.
    I don't know how "new" it is. I know it's part of post-9/11, but not sure if it was part of Montgomery as well. The deal is that you can't pass on your benefits to someone else until you have already served 10 years. Since the GI Bill is really designed for young bucks who do a single 4/5-year hitch and then get out, it's not really that good a fit for those who stay in longer. Once you've been in 10 years, in all likelihood you have a family. You can't support a family on the BAH that you get from the GI Bill, however awesome a set-up it is for the younger guys. Allowing the career guys to pass on their GI Bill to an immediate family member (spouses also rate) is seen as a way of letting them keep the benefit they have already earned, which their further service made more difficult to receive.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  6. #136
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your numbers, for whatever they are worth don't change what he reported.
    I am sure that he reported that he lost alot, and that he was glad SS was there. That doesn't change the math.

    And what you would do, if left to others, doesn't equal what everyone would do.
    privatized accounts within government programs can pretty easily be restricted in the kinds of investments they accept.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  7. #137
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I am sure that he reported that he lost alot, and that he was glad SS was there. That doesn't change the math.



    privatized accounts within government programs can pretty easily be restricted in the kinds of investments they accept.
    I'm not sure I trust your math. I would like to see it from someone without a dog in the fight.

    And what we're were talking about is us handling it ourselves, not the government handling anything.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #138
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not sure I trust your math. I would like to see it from someone without a dog in the fight.
    Ah yes, the ole "cpwill has something that is inconvenient, so he must be lying" defense. You have turned to it more and more since the days of WS. Fortunately for you, I have laid out my math in detail (Social Security Fix); so please feel free to peruse and check where necessary.

    And what we're were talking about is us handling it ourselves, not the government handling anything.
    we were talking (as I understood it) about privatized Social Security accounts.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  9. #139
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    -Welfare
    -AFDC
    -Medicaid
    -Food stamps/EBT cards
    -Government cheese/government peanut butter
    -Free or reduced school lunches
    -WIC
    -Pell grant
    -Cash for clunkers
    -Electric vehicle tax credit
    -Federal Tax Credits for Energy Efficiency for solar, wind or geothermal upgrades
    -Unemployment compensation
    -Free or discounted digital TV converter box
    -Free Government Cell Phone
    -Section 8 housing tenant or landlord
    -HUD project resident
    -First time home buyer down payment assistance
    -Any other government hand out for which you or your parents when you were a minor had to request or otherwise apply


    Academic and athletic scholarships and GI Bill excluded as those are earned. Social Security and Medicare excluded as well as we are all required to pay into it.
    I have been on unemployment (80's). First time home buyer (low down payment, but strenuous qualifications and mortgage/earthquake insurance required). Federal tax credit for energy (windows, water heater and furnace).

    Without going through the thread, what's your point?

  10. #140
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    Re: Have you every received some form government assistance?

    I've never been on any kind of government assistance.

    I am, however, looking forward to government assisted retirement ..

    .. Assuming, of course, such won't be the myth everyone keeps telling me it's gonna be.
    It is a fact that between 1 million to 5 million non-citizens (many illegal aliens) voted in 2016, nearly all for Hillary, thus it is a fact that Donald Trump most likely won the legal popular vote!

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