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Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

Are teachers overpaid and underworked?

  • Yes, they are overpaid and underworked

    Votes: 10 15.2%

  • No, they are not overpaid and underworked

    Votes: 56 84.8%
  • Total voters
    66
Phys251 said:
So your answer is zero, as in, you have no classroom experience of any kind? (Being a student does not count.)
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So you're basically admitting that you have no actual argument, you are simply acting out of base career protectionism. So your credibility and objectivity are zero.

Good to know:thumbs:
 
I was a teacher at the YMCA for maybe a year. All I did was the after school which was K-8, and that was all it took. Our teachers are stressed, under appreciated and then we expect them to preform with the only recourse for discipline is a freaking time out? Public, charter AND private sector schools are here to stay, that's the end of it. We need to at least make some kind of effort to appreciate and support them.

Back in my day the teacher say's "I am telling your parents" and you knew you were in for it. Now days it's the exact opposite? WTF happened you self absorbed uppity assholes?

Who ever voted "yes," you should be ashamed.
 
Guy Incognito said:
That sounds great until you realize that you can't just set artificial wage guidelines and expect reality to follow suit. This is akin to calling a circle a rectangle. It will, somehow, remain a circle no matter how hard you call it a rectangle. No matter how hard you try to set artificial wage guidelines, reality will always sink in. Even if the law says that you need to pay somebody 5.15 an hour, if the market will not bear that amount, something's gotta give. If the law won't budge, the purchasing power of the money will sink. Why else do you think the minimum wage needs to be raised every few years?
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If a government is paying the wage, than it be whatever the entity sets it to be. :shrug:

Guy Incognito said:
There was never a time when there weren't drugs. What kind of conspiracy theorist crap is this?

You think alcohol isn't a drug or something?

You have a remarkable way of burying your head in the sand and ignoring the most obvious of facts, buying into the most naive nonsense, not caring at all about the realities of money. Yet that never seems to stop you from crowing about how "rational" you are.

Go on, keep patting yourself on the back about your logic, when it is obvious to any rational observer how specious your logic is and how weak your arguments ultimately are. You're impervious to logic yourself, anyway, so what does it matter?
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So you are going to state a reason why this is a bad conclusion?
 
Blackdog said:
Back in my day the teacher say's "I am telling your parents" and you knew you were in for it. Now days it's the exact opposite? WTF happened you self absorbed uppity assholes?
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1% to do with schools, 99% to do with parents.

Seems to reason that the biggest overhaul needed for our education system is accountability by parents. Once again, I return to the voucher system. There are schools out there for active parents and children who want to learn and succeed. If that's true, there should also be schools out there for parents who take no active interest in their kids' educations and children who want to do nothing more than slip through the cracks of a revolving-door system.

There. Everyone's happy. You can't force a parent to care, but you can sequester them so they're not damaging to parents and children that are actually worth a damn.
 
Gipper said:
1% to do with schools, 99% to do with parents.

Seems to reason that the biggest overhaul needed for our education system is accountability by parents. Once again, I return to the voucher system. There are schools out there for active parents and children who want to learn and succeed. If that's true, there should also be schools out there for parents who take no active interest in their kids' educations and children who want to do nothing more than slip through the cracks of a revolving-door system.

There. Everyone's happy. You can't force a parent to care, but you can sequester them so they're not damaging to parents and children that are actually worth a damn.
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How does it help the children for their parents to allow them to slip through the cracks? :confused:

It seems that your solution transfers the problem from one of unequal funding to one allowing parents to make crappy choices for their kids. Both ways, the kids lose.
 
Gipper said:
1% to do with schools, 99% to do with parents.

Seems to reason that the biggest overhaul needed for our education system is accountability by parents.
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Yep, agreed.

Gipper said:
Once again, I return to the voucher system. There are schools out there for active parents and children who want to learn and succeed. If that's true, there should also be schools out there for parents who take no active interest in their kids' educations and children who want to do nothing more than slip through the cracks of a revolving-door system.

There. Everyone's happy. You can't force a parent to care, but you can sequester them so they're not damaging to parents and children that are actually worth a damn.
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The voucher system would not work. Everyone must be equal under the law. This includes good and bad parents or students.
 
Blackdog said:
Yep, agreed.



The voucher system would not work. Everyone must be equal under the law. This includes good and bad parents or students.
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Aside from that its a ploy for the rich to exlude the poor....what good is a voucher if you absolutely cant afford the rest of the tuition
 
lpast said:
Aside from that its a ploy for the rich to exlude the poor....what good is a voucher if you absolutely cant afford the rest of the tuition
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It would be worthless. It is just another failed RINO solution that would work about as well as "no child left behind." Now instead of teaching how to really read and write etc. Or God forbid balance a check book etc. They are teaching to pass a test so they don't lose Federal funding. What a joke.
 
megaprogman said:
If a government is paying the wage, than it be whatever the entity sets it to be. :shrug:
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Are you trying to prove me right about you habitual illogic? If government is paying the wage to provide free services, where is that money supposed to come from?

So you are going to state a reason why this is a bad conclusion?
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I already did. Hard drugs have always, since time immemorial, been available to the poor.
 
upsideguy said:
Certainly would be an acceleration of what has been going on over the last 30 years.
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On the contrary, it would provide a counterweight to the plutocracy we find ourselves in.

Think about it, if a free market system benefitted the elite, we would have it already. The one percenters that the lefties loathe so much would hate for there to be a true free market with the real efficiency and real opportunity it brings wih it, because then they would have to work to maintain their status. In a true free market class mobility is high and there are no "idle rich" like there are in the oligarchy we currently live in.
 
Guy Incognito said:
In a true free market class mobility is high...
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Unless you're born to poor parents in a poor area, and thus get a poor education and can only qualify for a poor university (if that), and then can only qualify for your poor job and have poor kids with your poor wife...and so it goes...
 
I have suddenly seen the light. The collies have been right all along! Paying a person less the he amount required for an American middle class lifestyle is immoral!

So by this line of thinking, the only solution that makes sense is obvious. The government needs to just write everybody checks! Cuz the government can just make, like, infinite money, right?

Geez, it seems so simple now, I don't know why nobody thought of it before!

Calm down, every, all problems have been solved.
 
Cardinal said:
Unless you're born to poor parents in a poor area, and thus get a poor education and can only qualify for a poor university (if that), and then can only qualify for your poor job and have poor kids with your poor wife...and so it goes...
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Look around you, mr Vonnegut, tha is he world we live in right now.
 
Cardinal said:
How does it help the children for their parents to allow them to slip through the cracks?
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It doesn't. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, so the best that you can do is to separate them so that if they're not wanting help, you don't waste help on them and remove a resource for a more worthy applicant.

It seems that your solution transfers the problem from one of unequal funding to one allowing parents to make crappy choices for their kids. Both ways, the kids lose.
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Some situations are not winnable, and the mentality that doesn't recognize this is a very dangerous and toxic one.

Blackdog said:
The voucher system would not work. Everyone must be equal under the law. This includes good and bad parents or students.
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The hell they do. However, in terms of legalities, they'd still be equal - therefore, a segregation of this archetype would be allowed.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Are you trying to prove me right about you habitual illogic? If government is paying the wage to provide free services, where is that money supposed to come from?
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The service isn't free obviously, but your argument was about prevailing wage. In this case, the entity setting the wage has the say. Government pretty much has a monopoly on teacher wages (sure there are private schools but they represent a very small percent of the market) so that is that. In this case, due to teachers providing a service that is fundamental to the economy instead of being simply a product of the economy, I regard this as a good thing because it means we can have additional inputs to pay teachers for what service they provide instead of what the market decides it should be. People are often irrational and short term thinkers because of that, sometimes being a product of the market, due to human flaws, is not a good thing.

Guy Incognito said:
I already did. Hard drugs have always, since time immemorial, been available to the poor.
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If you don't think there is a substantial difference between what is available now vs the past, you need to do some studying.
 
Gipper said:
It doesn't. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, so the best that you can do is to separate them so that if they're not wanting help, you don't waste help on them and remove a resource for a more worthy applicant.
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Who doesn't want to be helped, the parents or the children?

Gipper said:
Some situations are not winnable, and the mentality that doesn't recognize this is a very dangerous and toxic one.



The hell they do. However, in terms of legalities, they'd still be equal - therefore, a segregation of this archetype would be allowed.
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Guy Incognito said:
On the contrary, it would provide a counterweight to the plutocracy we find ourselves in.

Think about it, if a free market system benefitted the elite, we would have it already. The one percenters that the lefties loathe so much would hate for there to be a true free market with the real efficiency and real opportunity it brings wih it, because then they would have to work to maintain their status. In a true free market class mobility is high and there are no "idle rich" like there are in the oligarchy we currently live in.
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In a true free market, Social Darwinism wins the day. Those fortunate enough to be born with higher intelligence, superior athletic ability, entrepreneurial talent, in an upscale environment, with educated/driven parents, or in a family which has already achieved financial stability/success have an immense head start in the game versus those who have none of the above. :shrug:
 
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Guy Incognito said:
Look around you, mr Vonnegut, tha is he world we live in right now.
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Um...whether you intended to or not, you just admitted that your "In a true free market class mobility is high..." comment was false. Unless what you meant was that high class mobility was easy for the high class?
 
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Gipper said:
The hell they do. However, in terms of legalities, they'd still be equal - therefore, a segregation of this archetype would be allowed.
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Ahh I see. Because segregation has worked so well in the past. :roll:
 
Blackdog said:
Ahh I see. Because segregation has worked so well in the past.
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Some kinds work well, such as ones based on actions and choices done under one's own volition. I know you, being black, automatically assume the word "segregate" means by race (which is a bad form), but it can also mean separation by other factors that can be voluntary (which are good forms).
 
Cardinal said:
Um...whether you intended to or not, you just admitted that your "In a true free market class mobility is high..." comment was false. Unless what you meant was that high class mobility was easy for the high class?
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What on earth are you talking about. I pointed out that your post was full of ****. Tha doesn't change the fact my argument is sound.

The free market permits high class mobility, whereas socialism leads to class stagnation as wealth bottlenecks among the elite.
 
In SOME places they are overpaid....usually the highly unionized states.
But for the most part, not overpaid.
 
Guy Incognito said:
What on earth are you talking about. I pointed out that your post was full of ****. Tha doesn't change the fact my argument is sound.

The free market permits high class mobility, whereas socialism leads to class stagnation as wealth bottlenecks among the elite.
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I believe you are changing your statement now. Originally you said "in a free market class mobility is high"......now you appear to be saying that "a free market permits high class mobility." Two very distinct things; because the reality is that the competitive nature of the free market often creates obstacles that simply cannot be overcome by many. Is the possibility for class mobility there?.........Sure. Always. Is that mobility experienced at a "high" rate by many citizens?...........sadly, no. :shrug:
 
Blackdog said:
Yep, agreed.



The voucher system would not work. Everyone must be equal under the law. This includes good and bad parents or students.
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Even obama is seeing the light on vouchers.

"The Obama administration reversed course Monday and agreed to fully implement a controversial school voucher program that provides federal tuition assistance to a limited number of D.C. youths despite historically mixed opinion of the program among city leaders and the White House’s own efforts to eliminate it."

"The agreement builds on a “dramatic explosion” of school-choice initiatives across the country, totaling 25 bills in 13 states over the past two legislative cycles, said Robert Enlow, president and CEO of the Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice."

"The reality is the [D.C] program is helping children do better,” he said. “It’s really good they have reversed course on this and don’t want to get in a big fight with Congress.”

Read more: White House relents on D.C. school voucher bill - Washington Times White House relents on D.C. school voucher bill - Washington Times
 
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