View Poll Results: Are teachers overpaid and underworked?

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  • Yes, they are overpaid and underworked

    18 21.18%
  • No, they are not overpaid and underworked

    67 78.82%
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Thread: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

  1. #71
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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I think you're misreading me I am being jovial.
    Do you want to act like an adult and discuss or do you want to keep insulting?

    I am going to assume the former, so...

    Over and Underpaid are fundamentally moral questions for this profession. The reason I say this is that teachers have a unique job where they are literally an investment in the long term future and prosperity of this nation. Public education is probably the PRIMARY reason for this country's prosperity and thus should be looked at from a perspective of the good of the nation and not simply market forces. Education is far more important than capitalism as it is one of the primary resources that a modern economy feeds off of to run well or else we would very likely reflect a third or second world country.

    Despite what a market fundamentalist may claim, a market is a purely artificial social construct that will always reflect it social inputs to produce its outputs of wealth. And quite frankly, as a moral position, if a social construct is not furthering the society it finds itself in in terms of wealth, happiness, and other less tangible aspects, a better system should be devised. How our economy is constructed is not a moral question or one that is really even that important, but the end results are what matters.

  2. #72
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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Do you want to act like an adult and discuss or do you want to keep insulting?

    I am going to assume the former, so...

    Over and Underpaid are fundamentally moral questions for this profession. The reason I say this is that teachers have a unique job where they are literally an investment in the long term future and prosperity of this nation. Public education is probably the PRIMARY reason for this country's prosperity and thus should be looked at from a perspective of the good of the nation and not simply market forces. Education is far more important than capitalism as it is one of the primary resources that a modern economy feeds off of to run well or else we would very likely reflect a third or second world country.
    I think you are being overly sensitive. Considering how bad libertarianism gets insulted around here, I think socialism can withstand a few playful insults.
    Especially since this whole exchange was iniated by YOUR insult.
    Will get to your main point in a few minutes.

  3. #73
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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I think you are being overly sensitive. Considering how bad libertarianism gets insulted around here, I think socialism can withstand a few playful insults.
    Especially since this whole exchange was iniated by YOUR insult.
    Will get to your main point in a few minutes.
    Where did I insult you?

    You consider me pointing out your bad definition of value being wrong as insulting?

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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Underworked, no.

    Overpaid, yes.

  5. #75
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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Where did I insult you?

    You consider me pointing out your bad definition of value being wrong as insulting?
    My how quickly we forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    So essentially Guy's position is to redefine over and underpaid from a moral position to a position where it is totally defined by the market and then argue from that perspective.

    Its like saying "a rectangle is a circle, because I define it that way!"
    Not that it's a big deal, you're welcome to do so. It's fair game. So why can't you handle it when the sarcasm gets turned back around on you?

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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    My how quickly we forget:



    Not that it's a big deal, you're welcome to do so. It's fair game. So why can't you handle it when the sarcasm gets turned back around on you?
    Thats not an insult ...

    Thats pointing out flawed logic.

  7. #77
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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Underworked, no.

    Overpaid, yes.
    Try living on a teacher's salary from Ala-f'n-bama for a year then get back to us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

  8. #78
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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Do you want to act like an adult and discuss or do you want to keep insulting?

    I am going to assume the former, so...

    Over and Underpaid are fundamentally moral questions for this profession. The reason I say this is that teachers have a unique job where they are literally an investment in the long term future and prosperity of this nation. Public education is probably the PRIMARY reason for this country's prosperity and thus should be looked at from a perspective of the good of the nation and not simply market forces. Education is far more important than capitalism as it is one of the primary resources that a modern economy feeds off of to run well or else we would very likely reflect a third or second world country.

    Despite what a market fundamentalist may claim, a market is a purely artificial social construct that will always reflect it social inputs to produce its outputs of wealth. And quite frankly, as a moral position, if a social construct is not furthering the society it finds itself in in terms of wealth, happiness, and other less tangible aspects, a better system should be devised. How our economy is constructed is not a moral question or one that is really even that important, but the end results are what matters.
    Look, this is the problem. Overpaid/underpaid is not a moral question, it is a financial question. I would love it if people got paid for being morally good. The world would be a much different place. But it isn't like that. We don't live in a socialist fairyland where little magic elves grant wishes to the good boys and girls. In reality, people get paid not for being morally good but for bringing value to an employer who has money to pay them.

    So is a teacher, or a doctor or a lawyer or a circus clown, underpaid or overpaid? This question only arises when the free market is not allowed to operate. In a free market, nobody is overpaid or underpaid. It's not a communistic calculus of ability versus needs. This kind of system sounds great on paper, but we are all familiar with the fact that this leads to economic stagnantion as it removes all incentive from people to do quality work.

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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Thats not an insult ...

    Thats pointing out flawed logic.
    Yeah, me too.

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    Re: Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Yeah, me too.
    I am curious how you found this to be an insult.

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